Aaaaaah, just took a shower and everything suddenly went 'click'. _[] contains the objects so that's why _['x.y'] refers to a single object This makes sense. Then <dtml-var expr="expression"> or <dtml-var "expression"> really DOES do just an eval, and so it can work out that <dtml-var "x.y"> is the folder and then the object/method (although I think this is still a bit screwy) I was reading Evan's post but just not really understanding the significance. Stylin' chas