Hi all, thought I'd share this 'insight' - I could be wrong here though, so YMMV... I saw Loren Staffords' "Breadcrumbs How-to" at the new Zope community site, http://www.zope.org/Members/lstaffor/Breadcrumbs and realised that DTML methods are meant to be used as 'fragments' of a document, whilst DTML documents 'pull everything together' into a coherent web page. If I'm right, I think that the default DTML you get when you create a DTML method isn't that apt. I don't think that it should include the standard_html_header and _footer variables, as it's a bit misleading. I know that in some circumstances, you *want* to use a method as a container for your entire page, (ie I know that methods don't have properties and documents do), it just seems that including the _header and _footer parts in the default DTML of a method can be misleading for beginners (if you're a major Zope player, you know what the difference is! :) Am I right or has this curry addled my noodle? Tone