Hi all, I know this is kind of off topic, but it may be interesting for some people. The german company beehive stopped hosting Zope!!!! For at least the last 3 month you could read on their website that they were overworking their Zope hosting offers and that they could not accept new customers during this time. Now the website just says "We are no longer offering Zope Hosting Services!" Why? I mean it's been the only company in germany (as far as I know) who were hosting Zope. And I think it is a shame for a company who is publishing books on Zope to just cancel their Zope hosting. Maybe I just missed something (reasons?) about that topic and someone and can point me to that. Right now I feel a little stupid because I bought their book (about 90,- DEM) on Zope, which really doesn't bring you any further than the documention which is freely available on the net does. Sorry, but I am sort of *upset* Jan Jan@MountainbikeHQ.de http://www.MountainbikeHQ.de - Your home for DH, DS and CC Mountainbiking
On Wed, 19 Sep 2001, Jan Lentfer wrote:
Right now I feel a little stupid because I bought their book (about 90,- DEM) on Zope, which really doesn't bring you any further than the documention which is freely available on the net does.
I don't know the reason why they stopped their Zope hosting. However I find your critic a bit too hard: at the time they wrote these documents there was almost nothing else readable except small tips and howtos. These books may be outdated now, but buying them (as we did) was certainely a good money investment. bye, Jerome Alet
Now the website just says "We are no longer offering Zope Hosting Services!"
Maybe they changed that, but now it is clearly explained that they are focusing on software development. http://www.beehive.de/zope/hosting/index.html : "[...] [we] are now concentrating on the Education and Publishing and Software Development areas." Philippe
At 09:35 19.09.2001 +0200, you wrote:
Now the website just says "We are no longer offering Zope Hosting Services!"
Maybe they changed that, but now it is clearly explained that they are focusing on software development.
http://www.beehive.de/zope/hosting/index.html : "[...] [we] are now concentrating on the Education and Publishing and Software Development areas."
Philippe
Hmm, I guess I should have taken a deeper look into the new site before posting. I am deeply sorry for that. I think I was just upset because one option to choose from has gone and because their site was saying all the time that they would offer an improved Zope hosting service after redesign, if I remember that right. Anyway, it's their choice to do so and they will have their reasons. Again, sorry for posting too quick, Jan Jan@Mountainbikehq.de http://www.MountainbikeHQ.de - Your home for DH, DS and CC Mountainbiking
Hi,
The german company beehive stopped hosting Zope!!!! Why? I mean it's been the only company in germany (as far as I know) who were hosting Zope. And I think it is a shame for a company who is publishing books on Zope to just cancel their Zope hosting.
Yes I agree to you, this is a strange behaviour. But maybe they concentrating on training and consulting (=> more revenues). But there are alternatives in Germany. Take a look at iuveno.de (the company of Joachim Werner who is quite active on this list) or at lightwerk.de... But prices are to a certain extend so high that you can almost rent a dedicated nice linux machine and zopeifying it... And yes, the book was not a good investment :( C U Reto M. Kiefer Email: reto@codedculture.com Web: http://www.codedculture.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: MD5 RMK> But there are alternatives in Germany. Take a look at iuveno.de (the company RMK> of Joachim Werner who is quite active on this list) or at lightwerk.de... we asked our provider to set up a zope server and he did it. i think zope hosting is not an official offer of them but if somebody needs an zope server placed in germany just ask them (support@fhd.de). their servers are placed at the mediaways computer center. - -- Best regards, Dominik mailto:dominik.friedrich@epost.de -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQEVAwUAO6nQldUOgIR9W3t7AQH8BAf/TXTYRoE8aVR+iF21q4f8fEF7SwDetE3n MnJhsNA3RkVK9rj/DTT6yDagQuhprOv474mlcco6xRhl+i11G+qaD6EknyMcYCaF AFwmyTzTX1p+Jzfpc3Os2FNw79rOIcknBmDai7mUPHNcf52uh9ZstBAMwZquaf7k pMC1bqCIqNtYcsMoOjWMtx4RdWoPr7s1VMjr3sM6zEUQeyD14pPohsrBQFmD/OiP QgNzJqu6OYF+cgzKq0gE8KDLc+m/epzdGLCg/Wl2VzG+8BsBGM30LgREFeJBIMnX PZSVz2KqQMq7LWLvYaTH1UImrhKYaSvbQspaAAdmLLloogGrW+DeVA== =EyDY -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Hello!
The german company beehive stopped hosting Zope!!!!
Why? I mean it's been the only company in germany (as far as I know) who were hosting Zope.
As Reto pointed out in another posting, both iuveno (that's us) and Lightwerk still offer Zope hosting. I think that our pricing is also quite o.k. We talked with Mark from beehive, and he promised to inform customers who need a new home for their Zope sites about our services. I can't comment on beehive's reasons for stopping hosting, but I can tell you a bit about our situation: We started with setting up accounts by hand, which is rather time-consuming. If you sell a full Zope account for less than 50 dollars a month, this is not very attractive. For us, the hosting business is not (yet) a major stream of income. But: Now we have automated most of the process, and we are planning to invest more into it, like offering product installs of pre-tested Zope product packages right from the Zope Management Interface, and high-end solutions like ZEO-based systems that automatically scale with the site's hit rate. We think that plain Zope for the masses will never become an interesting business. Most of our current customers are web developers that re-sell the site as part of a design/development contract, or businesses who are doing their own Zope development. I mean, a plain HTML web account just costs 5 dollars a month in Germany. And most of the people who spend that on having a web site up and running are not intersted in programming the site. They just want to be able to use a web editor and upload the stuff. The situation might change with ready-to-run CMS systems for Zope ... Cheers iuveno AG Joachim Werner, CEO _________________ Wittelsbacherstr. 23b 90475 Nürnberg Germany joachim.werner@iuveno-net.de www.iuveno-net.de Tel.: +49 (0) 911/ 9 88 39 84
Hi Joachim, can you talk a bit how you did that automatic creation of accounts ?? Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joachim Werner" <joe@iuveno-net.de> To: <Zope@zope.org>; "Jan Lentfer" <jan.lentfer@web.de> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 8:09 PM Subject: Re: [Zope] beehive zope hosting (OT?)
Hello!
The german company beehive stopped hosting Zope!!!!
Why? I mean it's been the only company in germany (as far as I know) who were hosting Zope.
As Reto pointed out in another posting, both iuveno (that's us) and Lightwerk still offer Zope hosting. I think that our pricing is also quite o.k. We talked with Mark from beehive, and he promised to inform customers who need a new home for their Zope sites about our services.
I can't comment on beehive's reasons for stopping hosting, but I can tell you a bit about our situation:
We started with setting up accounts by hand, which is rather time-consuming. If you sell a full Zope account for less than 50 dollars a month, this is not very attractive. For us, the hosting business is not (yet) a major stream of income.
But: Now we have automated most of the process, and we are planning to invest more into it, like offering product installs of pre-tested Zope product packages right from the Zope Management Interface, and high-end solutions like ZEO-based systems that automatically scale with the site's hit rate.
We think that plain Zope for the masses will never become an interesting business. Most of our current customers are web developers that re-sell the site as part of a design/development contract, or businesses who are doing their own Zope development.
I mean, a plain HTML web account just costs 5 dollars a month in Germany. And most of the people who spend that on having a web site up and running are not intersted in programming the site. They just want to be able to use a web editor and upload the stuff.
The situation might change with ready-to-run CMS systems for Zope ...
Cheers
iuveno AG
Joachim Werner, CEO
_________________
Wittelsbacherstr. 23b 90475 Nürnberg Germany
joachim.werner@iuveno-net.de www.iuveno-net.de
Tel.: +49 (0) 911/ 9 88 39 84
_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Hi Joachim, can you talk a bit how you did that automatic creation of accounts ??
Hi! Well, what we are doing right now is "semi-automatic" and not too much magic, as we still have to manually check the contracts. Except for long-time customers, we can not allow creation of accounts over the web. It is currently just a combination of an instance home configuration with a modified "zstart" script and a config file, where you can add new accounts by adding a single line and restarting the script. It will then check for non-existing processes, create the instance home directory structure and start them. Products are managed by symbolic-linking them into the local products folder, so we don't have to go through all the accounts for updates. Plans are there for a really cool hosting system with automatic generation of everything from the Domain Name registration and the Apache configuration to the Zope and Zope Products configuration. But that one will take some more time and will quite probably NOT be open source, except if somebody is willing to share costs ... If you are interested in contributing to it, feel free to contact me ;-) Joachim
I have become a zope hoster without ever wanting to. I can not see how zope hosting in itself will ever pay for its cost. For the time being we only do it for customers we do other consulting jobs. However we may not expect zope to become widely used if there is no easy access to hosting services. Next to that there is a rule I believe that out of 10 good prospects for a busines oportunity one will really "prosper. So what we need to do is giving them a fertil ground to sprout. Hosting Zope I believe could be such a soil. That said, I willingly help for any attempt to make Zope hosting easy. Only my expirience in that behalv is not really big. Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joachim Werner" <joe@iuveno-net.de> To: "Robert Rottermann" <robert@redcor.ch>; <Zope@zope.org>; "Jan Lentfer" <jan.lentfer@web.de> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [Zope] beehive zope hosting (OT?)
Hi Joachim, can you talk a bit how you did that automatic creation of accounts ??
Hi!
Well, what we are doing right now is "semi-automatic" and not too much magic, as we still have to manually check the contracts. Except for long-time customers, we can not allow creation of accounts over the web.
It is currently just a combination of an instance home configuration with a modified "zstart" script and a config file, where you can add new accounts by adding a single line and restarting the script. It will then check for non-existing processes, create the instance home directory structure and start them.
Products are managed by symbolic-linking them into the local products folder, so we don't have to go through all the accounts for updates.
Plans are there for a really cool hosting system with automatic generation of everything from the Domain Name registration and the Apache configuration to the Zope and Zope Products configuration. But that one will take some more time and will quite probably NOT be open source, except if somebody is willing to share costs ...
If you are interested in contributing to it, feel free to contact me ;-)
Joachim
Dear all,
I can not see how zope hosting in itself will ever pay for its cost.
In the case of a fully automated setup + administration + maintaining it would be possible, and that is what we should consider to build. Joachim, I never intended any offense considering iuveno prices, but you have to admit that hosting with a LAMP installation is much cheaper (that is the _only_ reason for running my sites with PHP/MySQL). And if you are running non/half-commercial sites that is a point to consider... or renting a dedicated server.
However we may not expect zope to become widely used if there is no easy access to hosting services.
Yes I agree and this is real problem for the popularity of Zope. It is a discrepancy between the easy setup/usage of zope and finding an appropriate hoster... I would enjoy statements from Zopists outside Germany/Switzerland - just for the case it is a *local* problem.
them a fertil ground to sprout. Hosting Zope I believe could be such a soil.
I am sharing this belief and have a lot plans to reach this goal...
That said, I willingly help for any attempt to make Zope hosting easy.
I would join such an attempt too... C U Reto -- Reto M. Kiefer | New Media Solutions Gluckstrasse 4 60318 Frankfurt/Main Germany Tel.: +49 (0)69 59794874 Email: reto@codedculture.com Web: http://www.codedculture.com
On Thu, Sep 20, 2001 at 08:57:50PM +0200, Reto M. Kiefer wrote:
Yes I agree and this is real problem for the popularity of Zope. It is a discrepancy between the easy setup/usage of zope and finding an appropriate hoster... I would enjoy statements from Zopists outside Germany/Switzerland - just for the case it is a *local* problem.
I use www.hurrah.com here in the US, no problems so far and very reasonably priced. -- ................ paul winkler ................ custom calendars: http://www.calendargalaxy.com A member of ARMS: http://www.reacharms.com home page: http://www.slinkp.com
In Brazil, Hiperlógica partnered with hosting provider Insite to offer reasonably priced Zope hosting. Plans can be seen at: http://www.insite.com.br/planos/ Regards, Luciano Paul Winkler wrote:
On Thu, Sep 20, 2001 at 08:57:50PM +0200, Reto M. Kiefer wrote:
Yes I agree and this is real problem for the popularity of Zope. It is a discrepancy between the easy setup/usage of zope and finding an appropriate hoster... I would enjoy statements from Zopists outside Germany/Switzerland - just for the case it is a *local* problem.
I use www.hurrah.com here in the US, no problems so far and very reasonably priced.
-- ................ paul winkler ................ custom calendars: http://www.calendargalaxy.com A member of ARMS: http://www.reacharms.com home page: http://www.slinkp.com
_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
I can not see how zope hosting in itself will ever pay for its cost.
In the case of a fully automated setup + administration + maintaining it would be possible, and that is what we should consider to build.
As for automated hosting, I'm hosted by imeme.net, and as far as I can tell, it is fully automated : when I subscribed, I got my own jailed environement setup, with zope installed with apache, and I have access to a "client area" where I can add domains and email accounts in seconds. Then in my zope I have a modified vhostmonster which simply asks for domain name -> zope path. I can setup a site using this tool in 1 minute for my own customers without the need to ask the hosting support. There is no extra fee for additional domains. Actually it's cheaper than any other solution I previously used. I hope they will keep it like this :-) Philippe
Hi, wouldn't the entry-level Zope hosting be something to be organized by the EuroZope Verein ? Mit freundlichen Grüßen Joachim Schmitz AixtraWare, Ing. Büro für Internetanwendungen Hüsgenstr. 33a, D-52457 Aldenhoven Telefon: +49-2464-8851, FAX: +49-2464-905163 On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Robert Rottermann wrote:
I have become a zope hoster without ever wanting to. I can not see how zope hosting in itself will ever pay for its cost. For the time being we only do it for customers we do other consulting jobs. However we may not expect zope to become widely used if there is no easy access to hosting services.
Next to that there is a rule I believe that out of 10 good prospects for a busines oportunity one will really "prosper. So what we need to do is giving them a fertil ground to sprout. Hosting Zope I believe could be such a soil.
That said, I willingly help for any attempt to make Zope hosting easy.
Only my expirience in that behalv is not really big.
Robert
wouldn't the entry-level Zope hosting be something to be organized by the EuroZope Verein ?
This would be a great idea. Wouldn't it be possible to have a dedicated server somewhere, and a system to share the costs ? This may gives enough money to offer free zope hosting to small non-commercial sites... Philippe
Hi,
wouldn't the entry-level Zope hosting be something to be organized by the EuroZope Verein ?
Yes, that's a very good idea. But it still means that somebody has to do the work or pay professionals for doing it ;-) I think it is rather trivial to set up automated Zope hosting, even with full Zope instances, if we can skip the e-mail and domain name part (e.g. if we just offer "accounts.eurozope.org/MyAccount"-style accounts). There is one legal issue: We might be responsible for all the content. Remember that people have started using free zope.org accounts for doing bad things already, so that might be something to keep in mind ... And: At least we at iuveno pay for every single MByte of traffic, so we would well be able to sponsor the hardware, but not want to pay for all the "free" traffic ... Cheers Joachim (Werner)
I'm gonna just post to the two responsible lists from now on ... If we had enough resources in the EuroZope Verein to be able to pay for a line (e.g. a 2MB connectivity), we could have a "flat rate" for traffic. That would be much more predictable than volume-based hosting. There also seem to exist some flat-rate server housing offers. We might well be able as a community to pay 500 DM or so a month for a server that can be used for development and free hosting ... Joachim (Werner)
Joachim Werner <joe@iuveno-net.de> said:
If we had enough resources in the EuroZope Verein to be able to pay for a line (e.g. a 2MB connectivity), we could have a "flat rate" for traffic. That would be much more predictable than volume-based hosting.
There also seem to exist some flat-rate server housing offers. We might well be able as a community to pay 500 DM or so a month for a server that can be used for development and free hosting ...
If you're prepared to wait a bit, I'll be happy to give the EZV a (virtual) server for free on the Linux s/390 system we're planning to setup next quarter (no final decision yet, but it's close). We've got abundant bandwidth at the moment (~7Mbit unused), and I could also try to convince our bandwidth provider to sponsor a megabit or so. -- Cees de Groot http://www.cdegroot.com <cg@cdegroot.com> GnuPG 1024D/E0989E8B 0016 F679 F38D 5946 4ECD 1986 F303 937F E098 9E8B http://www.anti-dmca.org/
participants (12)
-
cg＠cdegroot.com -
Chris Withers -
Dominik Friedrich -
Jan Lentfer -
Jerome Alet -
Joachim Schmitz -
Joachim Werner -
Luciano Ramalho -
Paul Winkler -
Philippe Jadin -
Reto M. Kiefer -
Robert Rottermann