From what I can determine Zope does or should run on Solaris on a Sun server. Is that assumption correct.
Can anybody point to any resources or have any comments/opinions-- like what versions of Zope/Solaris seem to be compatible, any special issues/requirements?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Brian Sullivan wrote:
From what I can determine Zope does or should run on Solaris on a Sun server. Is that assumption correct.
Can anybody point to any resources or have any comments/opinions-- like what versions of Zope/Solaris seem to be compatible, any special issues/requirements?
Except for the fact that it will seem dog slow, Zope runs fine on Solaris. The major issue seems to be that the threading model in the Solaris libc is especially punitive for long-running, multi-threaded Python applications. I would recommend running multiple appserver processes, each with a single "worker" thread, rather than trying to run a truly multi-threaded appserver; you will then need to load balance them (e.g., with Pound). Tres. - -- =================================================================== Tres Seaver +1 202-558-7113 tseaver@palladion.com Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFC+9nk+gerLs4ltQ4RAhL1AKC+8Rhv2qz9r7xliS/dwXuCJwXW0gCeL33h nujTWQAHRXB74pOMFej+zuM= =nCbx -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From what I can determine Zope does or should run on Solaris on a Sun server. Is that assumption correct.
Can anybody point to any resources or have any comments/opinions-- like what versions of Zope/Solaris seem to be compatible, any special issues/requirements?
Except for the fact that it will seem dog slow, Zope runs fine on Solaris. The major issue seems to be that the threading model in the Solaris libc is especially punitive for long-running, multi-threaded Python applications.
Dog slow as compared to what? I would prefer to do the absolute minimum in terms of tuning. Most of my experience with Zope and otherwise is with Windows. Can I potentially get by just installing and running? How would it run that way on a current Solaris server with appropriate memory compared to say running on a P4 3meg Win2003 machine with appropriate memory.
I would recommend running multiple appserver processes, each with a single "worker" thread, rather than trying to run a truly multi-threaded appserver; you will then need to load balance them (e.g., with Pound).
I am not exactly sure what you are saying -- is this something to be done at the Zope end or with Solaris knowledge or both?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Brian Sullivan wrote:
From what I can determine Zope does or should run on Solaris on a Sun server. Is that assumption correct.
Can anybody point to any resources or have any comments/opinions-- like what versions of Zope/Solaris seem to be compatible, any special issues/requirements?
Except for the fact that it will seem dog slow, Zope runs fine on Solaris. The major issue seems to be that the threading model in the Solaris libc is especially punitive for long-running, multi-threaded Python applications.
Dog slow as compared to what?
As compared to commodity server-class Linux/Intel hardware (which will cost you around 1/4 to 1/3 what the "equivalent" Solaris rig does).
I would prefer to do the absolute minimum in terms of tuning. Most of my experience with Zope and otherwise is with Windows. Can I potentially get by just installing and running? How would it run that way on a current Solaris server with appropriate memory compared to say running on a P4 3meg Win2003 machine with appropriate memory.
Let's put it this way: even if you get paid in cheese sandwiches, it will be cheaper to buy a 1U lintel box to run the server than the time you spend trying to figure out why it is so slow on Solaris, let alone the time you spend trying to remediate it. Unless somebody has a gun to your head, you should not run Zope on Solaris in *any* performance-critical environment. FWIW, I offered once to *buy* the 1U for the client if it didn't smoke their big-iron Solaris box; they declined to take me up on it (but still went ahead and used Solaris, because that was what made the SAs feel warm-n-fuzzy). Matt Hamilton's report is still probably your best resource if you find yourself with the gun to your head: http://www.zope.org/Members/glpb/solaris Tres. - -- =================================================================== Tres Seaver +1 202-558-7113 tseaver@palladion.com Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFC++aC+gerLs4ltQ4RAkbfAJ43vVB+icfa33K0hMBPQl3vSjkgcgCcCDzc hBc03nMYUYJp+iHDxpodj+s= =NYLg -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Dog slow as compared to what?
As compared to commodity server-class Linux/Intel hardware (which will cost you around 1/4 to 1/3 what the "equivalent" Solaris rig does).
I would prefer to do the absolute minimum in terms of tuning. Most of my experience with Zope and otherwise is with Windows. Can I potentially get by just installing and running? How would it run that way on a current Solaris server with appropriate memory compared to say running on a P4 3meg Win2003 machine with appropriate memory.
Let's put it this way: even if you get paid in cheese sandwiches, it will be cheaper to buy a 1U lintel box to run the server than the time you spend trying to figure out why it is so slow on Solaris, let alone the time you spend trying to remediate it. Unless somebody has a gun to your head, you should not run Zope on Solaris in *any* performance-critical environment.
FWIW, I offered once to *buy* the 1U for the client if it didn't smoke their big-iron Solaris box; they declined to take me up on it (but still went ahead and used Solaris, because that was what made the SAs feel warm-n-fuzzy).
Matt Hamilton's report is still probably your best resource if you find yourself with the gun to your head:
OK -- I get the picture I think ;-) I will try to dodge the Solaris bullet if I can.
Brian Sullivan wrote:
... Matt Hamilton's report is still probably your best resource if you find yourself with the gun to your head:
OK -- I get the picture I think ;-)
I will try to dodge the Solaris bullet if I can.
Just for the record, the conclusion of the cited report (once you read to the postscript <http://www.zope.org/Members/glpb/solaris/report_ps#2>) was: "People really shouldn't be afraid of running python/zope on solaris, especially in multi-cpu environments, as long as they understand how python works, because you actually have much better resource control than pretty well any other O/S out there, but as they say use the right tool for the job, and make informed decisions ;-)" Also, the concerns about Solaris were related to poor performance under Solaris 8 on a multi-Sparc platform. Anybody got any more recent information that might apply to Solaris 10 or to an Opteron platform?
--On 20. August 2005 16:26:05 -0700 Steve McMahon <steve@dcn.org> wrote:
Also, the concerns about Solaris were related to poor performance under Solaris 8 on a multi-Sparc platform. Anybody got any more recent information that might apply to Solaris 10 or to an Opteron platform?
To make it short: Solaris is not slow by design. The *Sparc*-based hardware is fu*cking slow compared to decent PC-based systems. Solaris on i386 hardware is not slower or faster than compared to Linux. I made some tests lately with Plone under Solaris on a PC and the benchmarks (basically using ab) were more or less the same as with a comparable PC system (+/- 10%). So why would one use Solaris? Only when you have the need for reliable hardware. Sparc-based hardware is still at least 10 times more stable then a cheap PC system ... everything has its price. -aj
--On 11. August 2005 17:44:00 -0400 Brian Sullivan <briansullivan@gmail.com> wrote:
From what I can determine Zope does or should run on Solaris on a Sun server. Is that assumption correct.
Can anybody point to any resources or have any comments/opinions-- like what versions of Zope/Solaris seem to be compatible, any special issues/requirements?
As Tres said, Zope runs out-of-the-box on Solaris...f*cking slow...but it runs. Sun hardware is nice and stable but this is maybe the only reason to run Zope on Solaris (but only on the ZEO server side). Sun hardware is always outperformed by decent PC hardware for ZEO clients. -aj
participants (4)
-
Andreas Jung -
Brian Sullivan -
Steve McMahon -
Tres Seaver