Proposal of forking the zope@zope.org list
Hello co-zopers! The mailload on zope@zope.org is quite large and I dare suggest that I am not the only one having some sort of difficulty in sorting out the various topics on the list. I propose that we split^H^H^Hfork the zope@zope.org into the following sublists, which of course only reveal my own topics of interest, but I have the feeling that they would actually prove useful, especially for new users. The proposed list of lists :) reflect topics that I feel are frequently discussed and/or topics where there is no obvious preferred way of doing things: Proposed list Proposed topic ------------- -------------- zope-db - Disscussion of (external & gadfly) database access to/from Zope zope-um - Discussion on how to manage users, and the various products to extend/replace built-in zope user management zope-ws - Discussion on how to use zope with other webservers (like apache, squid, etc) and related techniques/products (rewrite rules, SiteAccess, VHM, fast_cgi, etc) zope-adm - Discussion on how to administer zope and problems/bugs related to this zope - Current list. mostly on how to develop IN zope (as opposed to zope-dev which is on how to develop zope). Here are discussions on DTML and stuff... zope-newbies - For the zopistas-to-be :-) Topics for new users, simpler howtos, best practices, etc... Cooments? Cheers, /dario - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Lopez-Kästen Systems Developer Chalmers Univ. of Technology dario@ita.chalmers.se ICQ: 14142275 (seldom) IT Systems & Services
On Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 11:19:51PM +0200, Dario Lopez-Kästen wrote:
Hello co-zopers!
The mailload on zope@zope.org is quite large and I dare suggest that I am not the only one having some sort of difficulty in sorting out the various topics on the list.
I think I would agree to *any* splitting. Also, zope-dev is quite blurred today. I feel the division is something like: zope-dev: for discussions that require deeper Zen zope: for discussions that are more accessible I don't know, perhaps people think the "-dev" means "real developers"? :-) I'd agree to any suggestion to make the lists more structured. The traffic on "zope" is *way* too heavy, and the traffic on "zope-dev" belongs on "zope" in 85% of the cases. []s, |alo +---- -- I say a prayer now our love's departed That you'll come back to stay Bring back the perfect day http://www.laranja.org/ mailto:lalo@laranja.org pgp key: http://www.laranja.org/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://www.BroDar.org/
"Dario Lopez-Kästen" wrote:
I propose that we split^H^H^Hfork the zope@zope.org into the following
zope-adm - Discussion on how to administer zope and problems/bugs related to this. Including connectivity to external databases and webservers.
zope - Current list. mostly on how to develop IN zope (as opposed to zope-dev which is on how to develop zope). Here are discussions on DTML, XXX Scripts and External Methods.
zope-newbies - For the zopistas-to-be :-) Topics for new users, simpler howtos, best practices, etc...
I would agree that splitting into these three would work. If it's too fine-grained, everything will just migrate back to zope, because there will be confusion in overlapping issues. -- Tim Cook, President - FreePM,Inc. http://www.FreePM.com Office: (731) 884-4126 ONLINE DEMO: http://www.freepm.org:8080/FreePM
I agree too many is a bad thing, zope, zope-newbies, and zope-dev should be enough, zope-install would be only suggestion so people could get over frustrating installation problems asap. -- Andy McKay. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Cook" <twcook@iswt.com> To: "Dario Lopez-Kästen" <dario@ita.chalmers.se> Cc: <zope@zope.org> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [Zope] Proposal of forking the zope@zope.org list
"Dario Lopez-Kästen" wrote:
I propose that we split^H^H^Hfork the zope@zope.org into the following
zope-adm - Discussion on how to administer zope and problems/bugs related to this. Including connectivity to external databases and webservers.
zope - Current list. mostly on how to develop IN zope (as opposed to zope-dev which is on how to develop zope). Here are discussions on DTML, XXX Scripts and External Methods.
zope-newbies - For the zopistas-to-be :-) Topics for new users, simpler howtos, best practices, etc...
I would agree that splitting into these three would work. If it's too fine-grained, everything will just migrate back to zope, because there will be confusion in overlapping issues.
-- Tim Cook, President - FreePM,Inc. http://www.FreePM.com Office: (731) 884-4126 ONLINE DEMO: http://www.freepm.org:8080/FreePM
_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
I strongly feel that there is enough momentum to justify the splitting of (at least) the zope list into various topics. I also agree that too many list is not a good idea; on the other hand I really would like to have separate forums to discus database stuff, user management stuff and zopeadmin/webserver integration. In fact I want them so bad, that I am willing to offer hosting of these particular topics. An alternative way of doing things would be for a group to work out some "best practices" when dealing with the admin/webserver integration issues. What I am also interested in seeing (and maybe there is some sort of ZIG [Zope Special Interest Group :-] on this allready ) is a forum for discussing design issues and best practices. /dario ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy McKay" <andym@ActiveState.com> To: <tim@freepm.org>; "Dario Lopez-Kästen" <dario@ita.chalmers.se> Cc: <zope@zope.org> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 1:27 AM Subject: Re: [Zope] Proposal of forking the zope@zope.org list
I agree too many is a bad thing, zope, zope-newbies, and zope-dev should be enough, zope-install would be only suggestion so people could get over frustrating installation problems asap. -- Andy McKay.
So... it seems like the current proposal(s) suggest adding: zope-newbies zope-adm zope-db zope-um zope-ws well... I can see zope-db (lots of db specific traffic), and even zope-newbies. I'm not sure there's been enough traffic on user managers to justify it's own list. I think a zope-adm might be OK if it subsumed zope-ws, as I imagine it's administrators that care about web servers. I personally see a danger in picking lists based on audience (as opposed to topic), as it makes it harder to know "is this for/about administrators or what?"). by the same token, perhaps a newbie-specific place is good so that people can ask questions and not get lost in the crowd of them. So, for now, I propose adding: Zope-RDB (relational databases and zope) Zope-newbies (new to zope? sign up here for help) If that doesn't let the pressure off, perhaps we can consider more. -- -mindlace- zopatista community liason
ethan mindlace fremen <mindlace@digicool.com> writes:
Zope-RDB (relational databases and zope) Zope-newbies (new to zope? sign up here for help)
If that doesn't let the pressure off, perhaps we can consider more.
I think these would be helpful, and most of the proposals seem to also. Is there anyone who would disagree with this as a next step ? NB it's -rdb rather than -db to differentiate from zope-zodb. (I would spell them zope-rdb & zope-newbies). Alternatively or in addition I would also enjoy Jerome's approach of subject tags on the zope-list; I think "voluntary and encouraged" would work better. If this went well might we want to consider re-merging some lower-traffic lists ? (!) :) (because you don't want an overlap between eg zope:[ZEO] & zope-zeo.) -Simon
Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com> writes:
I think these would be helpful, and most of the proposals seem to also.
Oops - then I saw the OTHER half of the thread. I agree with the anti-fragmentation/anti-ghettoization-of-newbies principle.. considering our numbers & energy level, though, I still think it likely to work well (better than what we have at the moment).
On Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 11:19:51PM +0200, Dario Lopez-Kästen wrote:
The mailload on zope@zope.org is quite large and I dare suggest that I am not the only one having some sort of difficulty in sorting out the various topics on the list.
Hear hear! As a brand-spanking new zopista-in-waiting, this proposal is *very* appealing. It automatically simplifies help by targeting topic searches in the list archives. This is indeed a "Very Good Thing" <tm - Martha Stewart> ((-; And Dario, your topic choices look well thought out to me... -- charlie blanchard http://baldguru.com/ Founder: LosAngeles area Zope Users Group http://lazug.org
participants (7)
-
Andy McKay -
Charlie Blanchard -
Dario Lopez-K�sten -
ethan mindlace fremen -
Lalo Martins -
Simon Michael -
Tim Cook