Aloha, ...
I start to understand:
You want to have a narrow, a focused site because you fear that a bigger one cannot be managed.
In such a case, I would say: start with the small solution and maybe get bigger later.
This is a basic principle of design that works (as opposed to design that fails to work). Start small and work the edges outwards. The "work edges outwards" that works is often modular in nature (perhaps a.k.a. 'micro-sites'). That doesn't mean it can't look-and-feel like "one big site as access point." Biting off more than one (person, organization, whatever) can chew usually results in choking... So I actually see a lot of agreement in what may appear to be argument. Also: I agree that despite the wonders of zope, the zope.org site is not as stunning a place to refer people to as it could be. For the most general public face of the site, I support the idea of a clear and simple "brochure-like" approach. A couple major open source project/product sites that I am excited about referring people to: http://rubyonrails.org http://www.mozilla.com ...and to some extent http://www.openoffice.org ...although IMO the OO site is not quite as clear and well-designed as the other two...better than zope.org though. Also bearing in mind that the Ruby On Rails site is for a development platform while Mozilla and OO are end-user app sites - somwhat different audiences. cheers, John S. -- John Schinnerer - MA, Whole Systems Design ------------------------------------------ - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net http://eco-living.net
On 6/27/06, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
This is a basic principle of design that works (as opposed to design that fails to work). Start small and work the edges outwards. The "work edges outwards" that works is often modular in nature (perhaps a.k.a. 'micro-sites'). That doesn't mean it can't look-and-feel like "one big site as access point."
Biting off more than one (person, organization, whatever) can chew usually results in choking...
Exactly my points.
So I actually see a lot of agreement in what may appear to be argument.
Well, the proposal is to start only with the accesspoint (and the origonal proposal did not contain anything else than the access point, and also proposed it to be interim, for some reason). We can't start with only the accesspoint, as we would have no product listing and no collector other than at old.zope.org, which would be completely bizarre. We have to start, as a minimum, with creating a products.zope.org and a collector.zope.org (or maybe rather bugs.zope.org) before we can replace www.zope.org. None of this is hard to do. It should be doable in a couple of days worth of work, in any case less than a week.
I agree that despite the wonders of zope, the zope.org site is not as stunning a place to refer people to as it could be. For the most general public face of the site, I support the idea of a clear and simple "brochure-like" approach.
Exactly. -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 09:50 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote:
On 6/27/06, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
This is a basic principle of design that works (as opposed to design that fails to work). Start small and work the edges outwards. The "work edges outwards" that works is often modular in nature (perhaps a.k.a. 'micro-sites'). That doesn't mean it can't look-and-feel like "one big site as access point."
Biting off more than one (person, organization, whatever) can chew usually results in choking...
Exactly my points.
So I actually see a lot of agreement in what may appear to be argument.
Well, the proposal is to start only with the accesspoint (and the origonal proposal did not contain anything else than the access point, and also proposed it to be interim, for some reason). This is not true Lennart. I'm not going to keep arguing with you; but I think it was clear from what I originally sent this is not as you describe it. Of course, I wrote it - and maybe I'm thinking more to myself about what I mean then saying it.
We can't start with only the accesspoint, as we would have no product listing and ... I wonder how all the other successful projects out there manage to not have an arbitrary products listing managed in their sites. PHP, JAVA, RoR, Python, ad nauseum. I just don't see how it's the sole stopping point. Write the 'Zope product' management software and expose it as a service - put it on the site. Nearly everyone uses Google to find anything they care about anyhow.
No one said bag the collectors. Rewrite http://www.zope.org/Collectors/ to collectors.zope.org and that's done.
no collector other than at old.zope.org, which would be completely bizarre. We have to start, as a minimum, with creating a products.zope.org and a collector.zope.org (or maybe rather bugs.zope.org) before we can replace www.zope.org. None of this is hard to do. It should be doable in a couple of days worth of work, in any case less than a week. Are you volunteering to do those two things in the next week? If so, then maybe we can move forward if the foundation has interest.
Andrew
On 6/28/06, Andrew Sawyers <andrew@sawdog.com> wrote:
point. Write the 'Zope product' management software and expose it as a service - put it on the site. [...] No one said bag the collectors. Rewrite http://www.zope.org/Collectors/ to collectors.zope.org and that's done.
No "writing" is gonna happen, and should not happen, becuse the writing takes time and the resulting software needs to be updated, bugfixes enhanced and managed, and that aint gonna happen. Your comments ignore the previous experiences with www.zope.org.
Are you volunteering to do those two things in the next week?
No, because I have a job during weeks. However, say next month or two instead, then, if somebody gives me the computer and internet connection to host it on, yes I can do this. -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/
On Jun 28, 2006, at 2:40 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote:
On 6/28/06, Andrew Sawyers <andrew@sawdog.com> wrote:
point. Write the 'Zope product' management software and expose it as a service - put it on the site. [...] No one said bag the collectors. Rewrite http://www.zope.org/ Collectors/ to collectors.zope.org and that's done.
No "writing" is gonna happen, and should not happen, becuse the writing takes time and the resulting software needs to be updated, bugfixes enhanced and managed, and that aint gonna happen. Your comments ignore the previous experiences with www.zope.org.
He meant "use an Apache rewrite rule", I think. - C
On 6/28/06, Chris McDonough <chrism@plope.com> wrote:
He meant "use an Apache rewrite rule", I think.
Oh. My excuses in that case. -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/
Andrew Sawyers wrote at 2006-6-27 22:03 -0400:
... Nearly everyone uses Google to find anything they care about anyhow.
I use Google because its search is faster than the one on "zope.org" *BUT* I restrict it with "site:zope.org". Otherwise, I get a few hundred thousand hits more. Sure, they probably contain what I am looking for -- but it takes me a while until I find it... That's one of my major interests to get a single site rather than one splintered across the world. -- Dieter
participants (5)
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Andrew Sawyers -
Chris McDonough -
Dieter Maurer -
John Schinnerer -
Lennart Regebro