Hi All, Some time ago i questioned this list about ten aspects of zope. (see Considerations using Zope). Just wanting to let you know i just lost the battle on getting my company to use Zope as it's web development platform.. Most votes went to using J2EE. Major cons against using Zope is the smaller userbase and the fact that Zope is still fairly unknown. Sorry, i've tried. Greetings, Daniel
Daniel, Sorry to hear that. I hope your company is prepared for the larger development and deployment budgets that come along with the larger userbase of J2EE :-) Kevin -----Original Message----- From: zope-admin@zope.org [mailto:zope-admin@zope.org]On Behalf Of Daniël Hooymans Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 8:30 AM To: Zope@zope.org Subject: [Zope] Lost the battle Hi All, Some time ago i questioned this list about ten aspects of zope. (see Considerations using Zope). Just wanting to let you know i just lost the battle on getting my company to use Zope as it's web development platform.. Most votes went to using J2EE. Major cons against using Zope is the smaller userbase and the fact that Zope is still fairly unknown. Sorry, i've tried. Greetings, Daniel
ZOPE is not fairly unknown in the technology community, it is fairly unknown in the business/advertising/marketing community (if that can be called a community - more of a battle arena - community implies sharing) J2EE does not perform well compared to ZOPE, or indeed most dynamic runtime environments used for server development. ------------------------------------------------- on 1/7/03 3:09 PM, Kevin Carlson at khcarlso@bellsouth.net wrote: Daniel, Sorry to hear that. I hope your company is prepared for the larger development and deployment budgets that come along with the larger userbase of J2EE :-) Kevin -----Original Message----- From: zope-admin@zope.org [mailto:zope-admin@zope.org]On Behalf Of Daniël Hooymans Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 8:30 AM To: Zope@zope.org Subject: [Zope] Lost the battle Hi All, Some time ago i questioned this list about ten aspects of zope. (see Considerations using Zope). Just wanting to let you know i just lost the battle on getting my company to use Zope as it's web development platform.. Most votes went to using J2EE. Major cons against using Zope is the smaller userbase and the fact that Zope is still fairly unknown. Sorry, i've tried. Greetings, Daniel
On Wednesday 08 January 2003 21:44, Grant Rauscher wrote:
ZOPE is not fairly unknown in the technology community, it is fairly unknown in the business/advertising/marketing community (if that can be called a community - more of a battle arena - community implies sharing)
J2EE does not perform well compared to ZOPE, or indeed most dynamic runtime environments used for server development.
OTOH, using Zope and OpenSource products causes big troubles for developers, who would not like this document: http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html and still want to be simple stupid crapware maker, just to get it payments; who came to the office 9.00 and leave it 18.00 in anyway; who careless for code quality; who hate read the sources etc. We use Zope and I won the battle against J2EE, but... I don't think I'm too happy: I should do *ALL* the job and still nobody else knows how to deal with Zope. Other, much bigger trouble and issue using Zope -- is all the time something missed. For example, we use Oracle and DCOracle2. There is dozen problems to develope really professional things. :( Zope.com claims DCOracle2 "professional adapter", but it still does not. Hope, Matt will fix some very important issues in the next release... More examples: there is only one CVS adapter -- ZCVS, which is completed suck. Yes, it works, but only if hacker drives it and you work with it VERY carefull. Working with WebDAV via External Editor still causes lot of problems with developers, who works on Windoze workstations (I use Linux all the time, so I don't know problem details :^) Also we will have Zope 3 "soon" -- really usable version (and several times patched) will be probably at the end of the 2004. There is still half-finished product Zope 2, but seems that currently all the power of zope developers are in Zope 3 developing. And finally all Zope 2 products will not work with Zope 3, what is really not so cool. When you turn off your rose eyeglasses, you will see that J2EE is not so bad as Python folks describes it, even if there is ugly Java language... Sad, but true. :-( P.S. All here is my IMHO. If I'm not right, I would like to know it to make me more safe. ;-) -- Regards, Bogdan C gives you enough rope to hang yourself. C++ also gives you the tree object to tie it to.
Bo M. Maryniuck wrote at 2003-1-9 16:21 +0200:
... many imperfections with Zope ... .... When you turn off your rose eyeglasses, you will see that J2EE is not so bad as Python folks describes it, even if there is ugly Java language... Sad, but true. :-( Isn't this true also for J2EE?
When I worked with J2EE, I met at least as many imperfections as in Zope: * buggy JVM * horrible and disfunctional debugger ("jdb") * completely weird error messages from Weblogic application server * horrible deployment * excessive development turn around times * missing checks in EJB query syntax * incredible database interaction time for simple EJB access * .... A small task (something like an afternoon with Zope) took about 16 days for 2 people. A big part has been that we did not yet know all the traps in our J2EE development environment. We fall into many of them and usually it took an afternoon to get out again (and understand what had happened in the first place). I never made such experiences with Python/Zope. Dieter
participants (5)
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Bo M. Maryniuck -
Daniël Hooymans -
Dieter Maurer -
Grant Rauscher -
Kevin Carlson