Silence was my part after an ealier effort, so I'll give it another try. I have a application for web supported learning, basically a platform where teachers and students can exchange information. It runs in zope 2.0.0. Users may create documents or folders by means of a dtml-method that wraps manage_clone. In version 2.0.0 the user automatically acquires a local role of owner in the context the folder or document involved. When I was upgrading to zope version 2.1.3 I noticed this automatisme did not apply anymore to folders, but only to documents: users are not given the local owner role in he context of a folder they create. Bug or feature? It is a problem, because what users ar permitted to do depends to a certain extent on ownership. Please help me out. tia, cb