Re: [Zope] Does Zope stack up as a portal?
--On 15 December 2002 12:48 -0500 Kyler Laird <kyler-dated-1040578352.848fde@lairds.org> wrote:
This is going to be a horribly-formed request, but I'm looking for some guidance on evaluating a product being pitched. The product is UNICON Academus. http://www.unicon.net/academus/products/overview.html
It's based on uPortal http://mis105.mis.udel.edu/ja-sig/uportal/ a "free, sharable portal under development by institutions of higher- education." UNICON's offerings appear to be closed and, at least for the authoring tool, MS Windows-only.
I want Free tools. uPortal is better than something like Blackboard, but it still has some severe limitations due to its licensing.
Whoa. Don't confuse UNICON (about which I know precious little) and uPortal (about which I know a bit). Have you read the uPortal license? <http://mis105.mis.udel.edu/ja-sig/uportal/license.html> I don't see any cause for concern there.
I'm wondering if I can confidently say that Zope can readily perform the same functions.
I think you can get a powerful framework like Zope +/- CMF to do reproduce uPortal. But you'd have to write the code first. There are some interesting developments like CMFPortlets <http://www.zope.org/Members/ausum/CMFPortlets> which show what is possible but they have some way to go to match uPortal. The University of Bristol wrestled with this question for a while - and then jumped both ways (uPortal for portal framework, Zope for CM framework). You can read more at: <http://www.bris.ac.uk/is/projects/portal/portalbytes> Paul
I like using Zope for most everything these days, but every time I go to battle against CMF, I come away ready to continue using other methods for awhile. I suspect that CMF is what I would need to use to get uPortal/Academus-type functionality without starting from scratch.
So...any opinions? I'm looking for comments like "Zope can't touch Academus without a *lot* of work" or "Oh, yeah, just fight through CMF and you're almost there." Specifics would be great, but I'll be happy just to get some insight. (If there's something besides CMF that can handle this role, I'll be especially interested.)
Of course, I'd also be happy to receive offers to provide Academus-like functionality in Zope using Free software for a price on the order of that of Academus. (I don't know how much they charge yet, but I will soon.)
Thank you.
--kyler
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-- The Library, Tyndall Avenue, Univ. of Bristol, Bristol, BS8 1TJ, UK E-mail: paul.browning@bristol.ac.uk URL: http://www.bris.ac.uk/
On Sun, Dec 15, 2002 at 09:33:18PM -0000, Paul Browning wrote:
This is going to be a horribly-formed request, but I'm looking for some guidance on evaluating a product being pitched. The product is UNICON Academus. http://www.unicon.net/academus/products/overview.html
It's based on uPortal http://mis105.mis.udel.edu/ja-sig/uportal/ a "free, sharable portal under development by institutions of higher- education." UNICON's offerings appear to be closed and, at least for the authoring tool, MS Windows-only.
I want Free tools. uPortal is better than something like Blackboard, but it still has some severe limitations due to its licensing.
Whoa. Don't confuse UNICON (about which I know precious little) and uPortal (about which I know a bit). Have you read the uPortal license?
Yes, and I'm sorry that I wasn't more clear. I'm quite aware that uPortal is a "free, sharable portal under development by institutions of higher-education." This is a Good Thing. My objection is to putting something closed (UNICON's Academus) on top of it. 'course I'm not nearly as comfortable with the thought of using another development environment. I'd much prefer to stick with Zope for *everything* instead of having multiple environments.
I think you can get a powerful framework like Zope +/- CMF to do reproduce uPortal. But you'd have to write the code first.
One of the things I love about Zope is that it allows me to make tools for people to reuse as content *providers*. Universities are strange places and I often feel like even within the Zope world, there's little understanding of an environment where there are (tens of) thousands of potential independent authors. But Zope can be made to work in this situation. Any idea if uPortal lends itself to many authors creating content and tools for each other? Or does creating useful tools require the equivalent of creating External Methods or Products in Zope?
There are some interesting developments like CMFPortlets
Ah...more stuff I hadn't seen already. I like it.
The University of Bristol wrestled with this question for a while - and then jumped both ways (uPortal for portal framework, Zope for CM framework).
Funny you'd mention them. This is one of the pages I'd found about uPortal: http://www.bris.ac.uk/is/projects/portal/docs/uob_portal_rubric2.html
Lots of good links there. Thank you. BTW, my tendancy right now is to investigate Fle3 and Plone (possibly with NeoPortal additions). I'm also finally jumping in to using AbracadabraObjects and PropertyFolders (now that I hacked them to work on my installation). I'm getting more comfortable with being able to assert that I can make a reasonable environment for everyone to use - not just as consumers, but also as providers. Thank you for the help. --kyler
--On 16 December 2002 09:31 -0500 Kyler Laird <kyler-dated-1040578352.848fde@lairds.org> wrote:
On Sun, Dec 15, 2002 at 09:33:18PM -0000, Paul Browning wrote:
I think you can get a powerful framework like Zope +/- CMF to do reproduce uPortal. But you'd have to write the code first.
One of the things I love about Zope is that it allows me to make tools for people to reuse as content *providers*. Universities are strange places and I often feel like even within the Zope world, there's little understanding of an environment where there are (tens of) thousands of potential independent authors.
It's called herding cats ;-)
But Zope can be made to work in this situation.
I agree - it's very flexible.
Any idea if uPortal lends itself to many authors creating content and tools for each other?
Not at present - uPortal is not a CMS. Though CMS "channels" are on the roadmap. In fact last week Columbia annouced V1.0 of their uPortal offering <http://list.unm.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0212&L=jasig-portal&F=&S=&P=10666> This makes me worry though - even in the Java world it seems like wheel re-invention when there's already Jahia, JCorporate, Wyona, Cocoon and doubtless others.
Or does creating useful tools require the equivalent of creating External Methods or Products in Zope?
Effectively, yes.
BTW, my tendancy right now is to investigate Fle3 and Plone (possibly with NeoPortal additions). I'm also finally jumping in to using AbracadabraObjects and PropertyFolders (now that I hacked them to work on my installation). I'm getting more comfortable with being able to assert that I can make a reasonable environment for everyone to use - not just as consumers, but also as providers.
Sounds like you're having lots of fun. Please keep the list informed of your progress. Paul -- The Library, Tyndall Avenue, Univ. of Bristol, Bristol, BS8 1TJ, UK E-mail: paul.browning@bristol.ac.uk URL: http://www.bris.ac.uk/
participants (2)
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Kyler Laird -
Paul Browning