OK, as we're having to go through all the DAs to fix/break/etc the multi-threaded support, I have a few questions for people about their usage of Gadfly... 1. Have you ever used Gadfly? If so, please describe in 30 words, what you used it for. 2. Did you find it useful? 3. Was the fact that it was included important to you? 4. Do you believe we should continue to include Gadfly in Zope? 5. Do you believe we should move Gadfly to an add-on distribution? Thanks! Chris -- | Christopher Petrilli Python Powered Digital Creations, Inc. | petrilli@digicool.com http://www.digicool.com
Hi! On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Christopher Petrilli wrote:
5. Do you believe we should move Gadfly to an add-on distribution?
Vote for it.
Thanks! Chris -- | Christopher Petrilli Python Powered Digital Creations, Inc. | petrilli@digicool.com http://www.digicool.com
Oleg. ---- Oleg Broytmann Netskate/Inter.Net.Ru phd@emerald.netskate.ru Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
----- Original Message ----- From: Christopher Petrilli <petrilli@digicool.com> To: <zope@zope.org> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 3:33 PM Subject: [Zope] Survey: Gadfly usage
OK, as we're having to go through all the DAs to fix/break/etc the multi-threaded support, I have a few questions for people about their usage of Gadfly...
1. Have you ever used Gadfly? If so, please describe in 30 words, what you used it for.
Never used it.
2. Did you find it useful?
See above.
3. Was the fact that it was included important to you?
Nope, not at all.
4. Do you believe we should continue to include Gadfly in Zope?
Not for my benefit, ;)
5. Do you believe we should move Gadfly to an add-on distribution?
Yep.
Thanks! Chris
No problem, Phil phil@philh.org
-- | Christopher Petrilli Python Powered Digital Creations, Inc. | petrilli@digicool.com http://www.digicool.com
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Christopher, Rather than respond to your individual points, I'd just like to suggest that Gadfly be left in as part of the Zope core. If Gadfly is a de facto Zope component, we could assume that most relational Zope Products would work with Gadfly. This would encourage people to at least try out new products against a standard out-of-the-box, preinstalled database. Off-Topic: A Gadfly client can run in a very small footprint (e.g. CE device) and may have some future potential in an embedded environment. It would be great to have Zope+Gadfly combined at the server side of that scenario. Best regards, Jeff Bauer Rubicon, Inc.
On Thu, 08 Jul 1999, Christopher Petrilli wrote:
OK, as we're having to go through all the DAs to fix/break/etc the multi-threaded support, I have a few questions for people about their usage of Gadfly...
On Thu, 08 Jul 1999, Jeff Bauer wrote:
Christopher,
Rather than respond to your individual points, I'd just like to suggest that Gadfly be left in as part of the Zope core.
Like Jeff, I'd like to respond generally to this question. Gadfly has some unique advantages as a standard part of the distribution: 1. Tiny footprint, but a large subset of SQL 2. Written entirely in Python, therefore intrinsically cool 4. In-memory model makes it pretty fast and very suitable for a wide variety of web applications which otherwise might need to crank up a big-ass database 5. Same unencumbered licensing as Python I think you guys had the right impulse when you first thought to include Gadfly in the core -- it could win a berth on coolness points alone. It's a win for Zope to include a database out of the box. Regarding thread safety. Aaron has indicated he will look into this, but for the moment, mutexes would need to be used. Like most of us, Aaron has a full time job and little free time. Since Gadfly is open source, perhaps Aaron would accept volunteer efforts to tackle threads?
Regarding thread safety. Aaron has indicated he will look into this, but for the moment, mutexes would need to be used. Like most of us, Aaron has a full time job and little free time. Since Gadfly is open source, perhaps Aaron would accept volunteer efforts to tackle threads?
Unfortunately this is a very tricky issue with difficult to anticipate side-effects all through the engine. I don't recommend it especially since it would be sufficiently different from the current engine to constitute essentially a new implementation. I have been thinking about a new implementation that would support (limited) threading in the same engine. This is somewhere in the future. For now I don't see why you can't simply guard each gadfly database instance by a mutex and thus serialize access to the database. I would even recommend this for other database engines since otherwise it might be possible for two threads to deadlock/livelock waiting for the same data item locks in the data engine to clear. I've seen this problem even with CGI scripts at client sites. [This is another problem that tends to only show up when the system is heavily loaded under real use :)] -- Aaron Watters === Jim Ahlstrom's catch 22 correlary: "If you think you are smart enough to write multithreaded programs, you're not."
At 16:33 08/07/99 , Christopher Petrilli wrote:
OK, as we're having to go through all the DAs to fix/break/etc the multi-threaded support, I have a few questions for people about their usage of Gadfly...
1. Have you ever used Gadfly? If so, please describe in 30 words, what you used it for.
Yes, for prototyping a DB quickly. And extensive UserDB support (so I could use cookies).
2. Did you find it useful?
Yes, especially for UserDB. No need to install another DB.
3. Was the fact that it was included important to you?
Yes. I can count on there being at least the Gadfly DB.
4. Do you believe we should continue to include Gadfly in Zope?
Yup. Upgrade to the latest version, including kjbuckets for speed.
5. Do you believe we should move Gadfly to an add-on distribution?
No. The advantage of Gadfly is its inclusion! -- Martijn Pieters, Web Developer | Antraciet http://www.antraciet.nl | Tel: +31-35-7502100 Fax: +31-35-7502111 | mailto:mj@antraciet.nl http://www.antraciet.nl/~mj | PGP: http://wwwkeys.nl.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xA8A32149 ------------------------------------------
["Christopher Petrilli"]
OK, as we're having to go through all the DAs to fix/break/etc the multi-threaded support, I have a few questions for people about their usage of Gadfly...
1. Have you ever used Gadfly? If so, please describe in 30 words, what you used it for.
I use it whenever I need a relational database when I'm doing Python work and determine that the overhead of installing a more complete RDMBS (where 'complete' mostly only includes speed issues). Specifically, I've developed several applications including a 'library' for DVDs (which should one day be extended to other items like books etc.)
2. Did you find it useful?
Hell yes.
3. Was the fact that it was included important to you?
It's real comforting to know that it's there.
4. Do you believe we should continue to include Gadfly in Zope?
Yep! It would be _really_ nice if you guys could figure out in the DA code somewhere if gadfly is already installed (and is of a useful version) so that I don't have to maintain two gadfly installations. Similarly it would be nice to have kjbuckets in there too (again defaulting to the standard lib tree if it's there)
5. Do you believe we should move Gadfly to an add-on distribution?
Nope! Richard
OK, as we're having to go through all the DAs to fix/break/etc the multi-threaded support, I have a few questions for people about their usage of Gadfly... 1. Have you ever used Gadfly? If so, please describe in 30 words, what you used it for. ** Yes, I have a small table < 200 entries of patented technologies that are being offered. Tiny tables was to limiting, I needed to sort the entries different ways ant select specific subsets for display. 2. Did you find it useful? ** Yes 3. Was the fact that it was included important to you? ** I was very pleased, made my development go that much quicker. 4. Do you believe we should continue to include Gadfly in Zope? ** It should be available I don't know the pros/cons of having it built in or readily available as Tiny Tables was. 5. Do you believe we should move Gadfly to an add-on distribution? ** Well... I tried to use the code that generated SQL queries automatically and it modified folders so that the original database wasn't portable to another Zope installation that didn't have it installed. The fact that Gadfly is built in means that I don't have to worry about it.
participants (9)
-
Aaron Watters -
Christopher Petrilli -
Jeff Bauer -
Larry Luther -
Martijn Pieters -
Oleg Broytmann -
Patrick Phalen -
Phil Harris -
Richard.Jones＠fulcrum.com.au