[ZDP] Re: Stuff

[Rik Hoekstra]

Hi Maik

> > >> We are talking about _low_ level entry stuff here.
> > >
> > >So, there must be a problem with deciding to be one of the following:
> > >
> > >Prospective Zope Users & Developers
> > >Zope Users
> > >Zope Developers
> > >Zope Hackers
> > >Zope Administrators
> > >Zope Documentation Portal
> > >Members
> > >Web Designers
> > >New Zope Users & Developers
> > >
> > >Is that the case ?
> >
> > That is the case,
> 
> Could we perphaps rephrase it to the following ?:
> 
> Prospective Zope Users & Developers -> Never heard about Zope ?
> New Zope Users & Developers -> Just got started with Zope ?
> Zope Users -> Using Zope for basic stuff ?
> Zope Developers -> Using Zope for advanced stuff ?
> Zope Hackers -> Working on Zope internals ?
> Zope Administrators -> Administrating a Zope server ?
> Zope Documentation Portal Members -> Member of the ZDP site ?
> Web Designers -> Using Zope to design web pages ?


ok, this is much better.

> 
> > but more fundamentally the case is that IMNHO there is no
> > hierarchy on the site. Everything is presented all at once, to everyone at
> > the same time.
> 
> People expect the FAQ, Snippets, ZQR, ZBook and all the rest
> of the documents on the front page right now, so I present it
> there until it is all integrated in the portals, and we
> can remove the stuff from the front page.

yes. That's fine. It can stay there as it's now.

> 
> > It is a matter of choosing audience.
> 
> Right, so maybe we need a front page where everyone has to
> choose a portal, and nothing else.

right. Just as long as that's clear (it is now)


> 
> > All Zope users are equal for the ZDP. To me, this means you should present
> > the tailor made information to them. Now, you first have to choose what
> > type of information you want, and I still think the site is not helpful
> > enough for making the choice.
> 
> Right, it is just the old ZDP site, only that we now additionally have the
> portals. I will probably break the whole site again, and make people choose
> the portal. There I will only present the stuff relevant for them.

Good. Sorry to cause you so much trouble. Actually, I quite like the way
the site is now presented. I think there are only minor changes needed
right now and they are visual more than anything else
- The main content column is the one with the portals. Make this the
widest. That also prevents it from getting so long.
- As a result, the news column should get smaller. Also consider making
this a smaller letter. As a visual site I found Blogger
(http://blogger.com) a good example. This should be quite easy to
accomplish.


<snip>
 
> > While these are both ligitimate approaches, I think it's wrong to mix
> > these up. Most people are lazy. Make it as easy for them as you can (if you
> > want to keep them)
> 
> OK. Do you think it is a good idea to have the
> 
> [add subject]
> [add topic]
> [add comment]
> [add draft]
> [add link]
> 
> links in place that allow anonymous to add stuff inside the portals,
> or should these be hidden, to make it a place where you just get
> information, and not contribute directly.

Yes I think that is a very good idea. Make this a link (in several
places):

Contribute to the ZDP

and then make this link to a little more elaborate page in which you
state how to make what contributions 

<snip>

> >
> > But the site wasn't introduced! So what would that be?
> 
> Good point, but I don't know many sites that introduce themselves.

Too few! How many sites are easily navigable?
The ZDP was going to be a top site, remember ;-)

> Maybe I only visit well-established sites that don't have
> introductory text, but I also think that people don't read on
> the web, they just scan text, so you should avoid lenghty
> introductions.

Did I say anything about lengthy? For our own website (that is
redesigned now) we stated that it should be clear to everyone visiting
immediately (1) _what_ (type of information) they could find on the site
and (2) where to find it.

> 
> > >> How should you know all this?
> > >
> > >Users expect what they know from other internet sites, so they have
> > >a good idea about what they can find here.
> >
> > Mwah, you're too optimistic
> 
> Alright, people mostly visit only a start page, and don't dig any
> deeper if they don't find what they need directly, so the start
> page really should make clear what can be found on the site.

as I stated above ;-)

> >
> > I meant - what is the relation between the ZDP and zope.org. This is
> > something that is not entirely clear to us, so how could we make that clear
> > to our users?
> 
> We can only tell the users that we have no clue yet how the both
> sites relate, and that the reality right now is that we are doing
> the FAQ, Snippets, ZBook, ZQR and Portals on the ZDP site, and that
> the Howtos, Products and Tips are on the Zope.org site. And also
> the ZDP site does have different members than the Zope.org site.

Yeah. WHile it's not entirely positive, it is clear. Clarity is what we
should offer.

> 
> > Hope I have clarified my concerns.
> 
> Yes, now I see your point much clearer ! I'll work on this soon.
> 
> > i"m willing to do some more writing for the homepage, if you want
> > me to.
> 
> Do you mean the entry point ? These really need to be done. A quick
> introduction on the topics is needed together with the best resources
> you can find.


OK, I'll do my best, but I only have this week before my holiday and
there is a _lot_ of work to be done here!

greetings

Rik