[ZDP] ZDP & Zope.org

[ethan mindlace fremen]

Maik Roeder wrote:
> 
> Hi mindlace !

Good evening, Maik

[snip good overview of the zdp]

> We are not there yet, but the goal must be to help people find the
> documentation they need, and keep them informed about what's new,
> so it's a starting point for the whole Zope community in their search
> for documentation.

I can see that.

> Then we would depend on the time that a DC employee has to add
> features. I'd rather have a system where different parts are
> managed by certain parts of the community. For example on the
> ZDP-Tools site someone is responsible for the Snippets, someone
> for the FAQ, and so on.

The goal is that parts of the site will be developable by parts of the
community.
I don't think this should extend to Products "in situ", but certainly
the Products'
development will be in the fishbowl.

Site development that doesn't involve making products _will_ be
availiable to community members.

> I'd rather make up my mind how to change the ZDP-Tools to better fit
> what people want to do, because then I can implement it myself if
> I want to. Feel free to look at all the tasks and discussions that
> have been going on at ZDP. That will surely help to see where the
> problems are.

I will look at it.

> Everyone can get a root account to do make changes to the parts of the
> site that needs work. It can happen that people break something along
> the line, so I just ask them to check everytime to see that the most important
> pages still work. Whatever is still broken will soon be found and corrected
> anyway. It can't be much though, because the ZDP-Tools are highly modularized.

I don't think this approach will work for Zope.org, for a number of
reasons, organizational and technological.  The organizational reason is
that I simply cannot allow any one of the 9000 or so members to get root
access as they ask.

Right now, I feel that a system where people gain priveledges as they
display the requisite characteristics, coupled with 'oversight' from
other members of the community, would best serve the needs of zope.org.

> It is hard to find them, but if you click long enough on the search,
> you'll find them here:

Hm.  I didn't find them on the regular product page.  It wasn't
catalogued: it is now.

> > That being said, this particular aspect will be availiable.  Making
> > products open for people to change is just not going to happen without a
> > lot of latency, because our move to ZEO complicates the products picture
> > substantially.
> 
> I usually react to user requests within hours, so this would be a reason
> for me to stick with the ZDP site for a while.

The point is that is technically impossible to do what you ask. 
Changing a product in a ZEO environment currently requires that every
Zope instance be updated with the new product.  Furthermore, each Zope
instance must carry the same copies of products, because there can be
bad consequences otherwise.  Therefore upgrades need to be done in a
controlled fashion.

Not to mention the fact that this method enhances transparency.  Is
there a new release of the ZDP-Tools as you make changes to them?  If I
download ZDP-Tools 0.2 am I getting the same ZDP-Tools as run on
zdp.zope.org?  I need to answer these questions affirmatively with
zope.org.

There's no way for me to make these issues go away.  Therefore, while
Product development can be open, it cannot be on-the-spot.  This has a
consequence that if the ZDP feels that the work can only be done with an
"in situ" development style, then the ZDP will be unable to merge with
the rest of zope.org.

> Sorry, I forgot that it only was a proposal for a task:
> 
> http://zdp.zope.org/projects/zdptools/Drafts/955199659

Interesting.  I hope this sort of thing bears fruit.

> > Well, at the moment, the development part will be for product coders
> > (ala PTK) and zope source code hackers.  The builder part will be for
> > content managers/dtml programmers.
> 
> Then you could use builders and developers in the help system as well.

That's true.  We'll see where it goes- I need to get more familiar with
the help
system.

boa fim-de-semana,
-- 
ethan mindlace fremen
Zopatista Community Liason