[ZDP] On possible implementations of topic, subtopic, category and keyword inZDPZDP

[Maik Roeder]

Hi David !

David Kankiewicz wrote:
> just a alterative implementation, another view of a hierarchy. (use my
> terminology, if it makes more sense. Category/Subject?)
> I've been modeling a large Web Catalog based on something similiar to
> what I have below.

The problem is that we don't have something comparable to a Web Catalog
here, but rather the exact opposite, which is different types of
documentation spread all over the place. The point is that we 
need some way to build up some sort of "Web Catalog" on the fly
from these widely disperged documentation fragments. Also, when you are
in one of these fragments, you want to know what is related or could
be helpful in this context, even across topic borders, which seems 
utopian right now.
 
> to copy your layout:
> 
>                   Usage |       specifity        | examples
> ------------------------+------------------------+-------------------
> 1. Category   top level | Whole Subject domains  | Zope, Python
> 2. Subject   everywhere | Defined subject        | Install, ZCat
> 3. Topic    acquireable | Boardly defined Topics | acquisition, DTML
> ------------------------+------------------------+-------------------

We can't use aquirable Topics here like you say, because we have no hierarchy
to aquire from really. To make this clearer, an example:

In a FAQ section on DTML, we have a question about dtml-let. If we want to
know what is related, then we can't just use the hierarchy defined by
the FAQ, but also the hierarchy defined by ZBook, ZHowto, ZTips, ZSnippets
and so on. Aquisition is limited to one hierarchy.

> The behavior of these are as follows:
> 
> Categories act as high level entry points (Probably not needed in the
> case of Zope and Python, maybe if you needed developer, user). and a
> place to put 'topic's...

I our case, we need the Categories to enable us to attach them somehow
to out document fragments. The Categories may need to be defined globally,
so that they are accessible from everywhere and can be inserted in Forms
for adding documents. How the insertion should work is not clear, but
maybe I can brainstorm an example:

When I am in a FAQ Section on DTML, a globally defined subject like "DTML"
could be used to give me the possible Topics relating to DTML. So, when
I add a question to the "DTML Section", I get a list of Topics I can select,
which my question is about.
 
> Subjects are nothing special except when a they are given a matching
> topic, defined as a 'string' containing the 'id' (has to be different,
> waaahhh) of the topic, they would then list off all the matching
> Categories/Subjects which contain entries under that topic:'some-topic'.

I understand. Subjects contains links. Links to ids. Behind the ids are the
topics. The topics can naturally be aquired. Is that right ?
 
> Topics are, as noted above, really weird! They act as if they are a type
> of subtopic in every Subject or folder below where they are defined.

I wonder how you came up with this idea !!! :-)

> They would show up in any of the subjects below them, of course you can
> allows just place them in the subject and have them only show up in only
> that subject. They would only show themselves if something is in them...

Sorry, I can't follow you here.
 
> So an example might be (again, using your example as a base):
> 
> >
> > Is the following ok ?
> >
> 
>  Subject:     -  Python
>  Subject:     -  Zope
>    Topic:         - syntax
>    Topic:         - variables
>    Topic:         - tags
>    Topic:         - acquisition

Up to here it is ok. The general subject is Zope.
You have different aspects of Zope like the syntax,
variables, tags, aquisition and what not ? These
are all kinds of things that may or may not occur
further down the hierarchy, so you are actually
putting that which would normally be described 
further down for the first time to the highest
possible place where it makes sense for other
children of the Subject to also refer to this topic.
Is that anywhere near what you were thinking of ? :-)

>    Subject:       - DTML
>    Subject:       - Security
>      Topic:         - roles
>      Topic:         - permissions
>      Topic:         - passwords
>      Topic:         - authenticated_user
>  Subject:      - external methods
>  Subject:      - python methods
>  Subject:      - python products
>  Subject:      - zsqlmethods
>  Topic:        - argument passing
> 
>  Topic or "Subject"? I have no idea:   - content manipulation
> 
> 
> The idea is in any folder you would have a combined list of 'topic(s)'
> from above.
> e.g.:
> 
> 1, In "Security" you would place a document under "acquisition", that
> talks about, "how acquisition limits the range of the functions, like
> so..."
> 
> >From the one click view of "acquisition" at the top, you would see
> "Security" as a sub - "subject". Click on it and your in
> "Security/acquisition"

I fear that I don't get the whole Zen of what you are doing, but it does
all sound very interesting. Can it be that people are looking for information
about aquisition, and you can directly display where this Topic plays 
a role ?
 
> 2. In "Security" you could place a document under "argument passing",...
> 
> 3. etc. Hope you get the point...

Lost.
 
> Implementation:
> Does not need a unique id, instead each document would get a 'link'
> object that would point to the document you wanted, probably stored at
> the top of the hierarchy.  (This differs completely from the way my own
> model works, it stores the links inside documents... only works on
> single server, more complex, etc.)
> 
> The 'link' would hold properties that contain the 'subject' and a 'list
> of topics' you want want it to appear under.
> One 'link' per "subject"... otherwise you lose the ability to limit to
> area.
> 
> > 3. reviewed lists
> >    new keywords are reviewed first by a maintainer
> I vote for this type! No one person can think of everything.
> 
> Well, I hope that does the job of providing a different view,
> regards,

I would  like to understand what you are saying, so maybe you can
point me to your web catalog thingie, and I can have a look at
how it works.

Greetings,

Maik Röder