[ZDP] On possible implementations of topic, subtopic, category and keyword inZDPZDP

[Kankiewicz]

Maybe this will clear it up. :)

Maik Roeder wrote:
> 
> The problem is that we don't have something comparable to a Web Catalog
> here, but rather the exact opposite, which is different types of
> documentation spread all over the place. The point is that we
> need some way to build up some sort of "Web Catalog" on the fly
> from these widely disperged documentation fragments. Also, when you are
> in one of these fragments, you want to know what is related or could
> be helpful in this context, even across topic borders, which seems
> utopian right now.


I'm an utopianist designer!
My idea/solution would allow this by showing all of the 'link' objects,
with each link you could show the Subject/Topics that it is located in
or the other 'links' located there.

Trying to re-state what I was talking about:

The actual idea is to build a dynamic hierarchy, one that has Subjects
and Topics. This hierarchy is build separate from the documents,
fragments, etc., as needed...


> 
> We can't use aquirable Topics here like you say, because we have no hierarchy
> to aquire from really. To make this clearer, an example:
> 
> In a FAQ section on DTML, we have a question about dtml-let. If we want to
> know what is related, then we can't just use the hierarchy defined by
> the FAQ, but also the hierarchy defined by ZBook, ZHowto, ZTips, ZSnippets
> and so on. Aquisition is limited to one hierarchy.
> 

My idea was to create the hierarchy to show the links in and tie
documents together...


> I our case, we need the Categories to enable us to attach them somehow
> to out document fragments. The Categories may need to be defined globally,
> so that they are accessible from everywhere and can be inserted in Forms
> for adding documents. How the insertion should work is not clear, but
> maybe I can brainstorm an example:


This would be maintained in a 'link' object, in my scheme. 'link' has a
URL that points to a Subject/Topic(s). You can have multiple 'link'
objects for a give object.

Link object: (stored somewhere - anywhere) (in my own implementation
these are stored in the documents and are CatalogAware, so the documents
can more, etc.)
Properties:
   URL: string 'absolute_URL or Path of Object that it points to' (again
this is different from my own...)
   Subject: string 'any Subject in the hierarchy'
   Topics: tokens 'any number of Topics'

These are then cataloged. In the hierarchy, a search for the current
Subject and Topic, grabbed from PARENTS (subject='DTML' /
topics='Syntax' see below) would give us all the links that match...

Or in a document, a search for 'link' objects that have the current path
(URL='/Somewhere/document') would make available all the Subjects/Topics
it can be found under....

> 
> When I am in a FAQ Section on DTML, a globally defined subject like "DTML"
> could be used to give me the possible Topics relating to DTML. So, when
> I add a question to the "DTML Section", I get a list of Topics I can select,
> which my question is about.
> 
> > Subjects are nothing special except when a they are given a matching
> > topic, defined as a 'string' containing the 'id' (has to be different,
> > waaahhh) of the topic, they would then list off all the matching
> > Categories/Subjects which contain entries under that topic:'some-topic'.

Forget I ever said the above!!!! not needed here, something too complex
for this limited number of Subjects....

> 
> I understand. Subjects contains links. Links to ids. Behind the ids are the
> topics. The topics can naturally be aquired. Is that right ?


Bad explanation on my part.  Second try: 
If I define a hierarchy like:

Argument passing (Topic)
Acquisition (Topic)
Python (subject) "or (category) your choice of terms. I have to consider
larger hierarchies..."
DTML (subject)
   Variables (Topic)
   Syntax (Topic)


Than the following is possible in my hierarchy:
Display hierarchy:



Argument passing
   DTML      (link to 'DTML/Argument passing' if something is in there)
   Python    (link to 'Python/Argument passing' if...)
Acquisition
   DTML      (link to 'DTML/Acquisition' if something is in there)
   Python    (link to 'Python/Acquisition' if...)
DTML
   Argument passing
   Acquisition
   Variables
   Syntax
Python
   Argument passing
   Acquisition


Its a hierarchy with acquirable Topics, see it expand but remain linked.

> 
> > Topics are, as noted above, really weird! They act as if they are a type
> > of subtopic in every Subject or folder below where they are defined.
> 
> I wonder how you came up with this idea !!! :-)

After trying to build a hierarchy of subjects that could scale into
multiple-millions, I had to find a way to create mini 'acquirable
hierarchies' i.e. Topics (in my terminology) that allow my to define for
example: all the possible subjects/topics you would use in a
'programming language' and use them repeatedly in all programming
languages. Now I make 50 topics under p/l and the user sees 1000's of
interlinked, navigable subjects and links.

Its really cool, or am I totally insane?

> 
> > They would show up in any of the subjects below them, of course you can
> > allows just place them in the subject and have them only show up in only
> > that subject. They would only show themselves if something is in them...
> 
> Sorry, I can't follow you here.

Think, not every Subject will have a document under every possible Topic
acquired, no doc = no display. If you add a doc there it, the Topic gets
displayed.
How about now?

> 
> Up to here it is ok. The general subject is Zope.
> You have different aspects of Zope like the syntax,
> variables, tags, aquisition and what not ? These
> are all kinds of things that may or may not occur
> further down the hierarchy, so you are actually
> putting that which would normally be described
> further down for the first time to the highest
> possible place where it makes sense for other
> children of the Subject to also refer to this topic.
> Is that anywhere near what you were thinking of ? :-)

I think you got it.

>
> > >From the one click view of "acquisition" at the top, you would see
> > "Security" as a sub - "subject". Click on it and your in
> > "Security/acquisition"
> 
> I fear that I don't get the whole Zen of what you are doing, but it does
> all sound very interesting. Can it be that people are looking for information
> about aquisition, and you can directly display where this Topic plays
> a role ?

Yes, if I want to, I can find all the Subjects with this Topic under
them and show them as [See 'Security' under: "Subject", etc.].

> 
> > 2. In "Security" you could place a document under "argument passing",...
> >
> > 3. etc. Hope you get the point...
> 
> Lost.

Hope you get it this time...


> 
> I would  like to understand what you are saying, so maybe you can
> point me to your web catalog thingie, and I can have a look at
> how it works.

Sorry, it's still in concept stage (workable but half implemented), and
much more complex (ZDP doesn't need it all).

> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Maik Röder
> 

Well, its something to think about..
regards,
David