[ZDP] portal comments..

[Maik Roeder]

Hi Christian !


> The main page is too full.

I would like to just have the portals there.

>  I would better only make links to the projects and maybe put
>  a little explanation there (you could also make the headline
>  to point to the description). Or the contents should be set in
>  a smaller font.
>  At least the FAQ should better only be a link (everybody knows
>  what a FAQ is so no description needed). Right now it takes
>  too much space.

The projects, faqs and everything else needs to be thrown into
the portals.

> When clicking some portal links all I get are "empty" pages
> meaning pages which invite me to add something.. 
> I don't think that this is good for first time visitors because
> you never know which portal already contains something. If you
> only get "nothing" users might get frustrated.

This has inspired me to allow users to add comments, drafts, 
links and questions to the Topics directly. So, if there is
an empty page, at least the people see that they can get
a first post ;-)

> Also if they do the search it might not be that clear how to add
> information. There should be some button/whatever. 

We can surround every single bit of content in it's Topic from
the Portals ! For example when you get to a Howto
via a Search, but this Howto is presented embedded in the
Community/Subject/Topic/ hierarchy. This allows people to jump
back to the Topic/Subject/Community again. Then adding a
comment would mean adding it to the Topic instead of to the
document, although it should also be possible to add a 
comment to a specific document, but I don't know how.

> First mailing a maintainer before getting access might be again
> too much for the user to do.

This is why anonymous can add stuff now.

>  I think that the main goal of ZDP should be to provide information
>  and the second to gather it.

We are providing existing information on the ZDP site through
the Portals now. Gathering the new information is done first
by the community. The ZDP is then responsible for separating
the good stuff and put it in front. Also, we need to delete
bad information and generally moderate discussions that may
come up.

> Thus the "normal" user should first be
>  presented with areas where information is already existing.

I don't think it is important that there already exists something.
In my opinion it is better to set a framework, and let people
know that the community can work together with the ZDP by
adding stuff that needs to be discussed.

>  In another mode there might then be the possibility to add stuff (or
>  simply a link to a page listing the topics which are not filled
>  yet.)

This is not necessary IMHO. People who are interested in a Topic
will see directly what is there and what needs to be written
anyway.

>  Also the maintainers for the portal pages are not linked and thus
>  not accessible (but this is sure a minor problem and quickly solved).

I want to have moderators for each Portal. Then there need to be
Moderators for each Subject and possibly Topic.

> The header seems to big. Depending on your window size it might take
> half or more of the content area. This should maybe changed. Maybe
> at least the search area can be moved to the bottom and the links
> to OSWG, etc. are also not that important at the deeper pages.

Right, but the Search area needs to remain there. Otherwise
I agree.

> Stuff is sometimes shown a little too technical. E.g.
> 1) When I click on "members" I get a headline "Member folder"
>    and a list with icons and names. This should maybe changed
>    to a normal list without icons and a "normal" headline like
>    "Members" ;-)

I have changed that.

> 2) I click on "What's new" and get a similar list and don't know
>    what to do with it (at least the first time user might not know).

This needs to be changed radically anyway.

>    Also the list seems to be too long. So maybe some "more items.."
>    links should be provided.

I have reduced the size of this list, and put the following desciption in:
"This is a list of all documents that have changed in the last 2 days."

>    When I now click on "ZDP Members" I get again get the "Get involved"
>    message and lots of links like "Tasks", "Portal" which make not
>    that much sense to be until I click them. And even after clicking
>    I dunno what they are supposed to be for ;-)

This is an open field. ZDP Members need to know how to work with Portals,
Tasks and so on. I think this is the right place to put the howtos in
as I have discussed with Tom.

>       Maybe the nesting is also a little bit deep..
>       (like ZDP  >  Portals  >  Members  >  Tasks  >  Task  )

Or we need to put the meta information above:

ZDP Portals > Portals > Community: "Members" > Subject: "Tasks" > Topic: "Task"

> So somehow it's all a little confusing at the beginning.. ;-)
> (I know the chaotic approach is followed and I don't think it's negative.
> Nevertheless a new user should also be able to find information and do
> that quickly.)

I think we need some overview listing like this:

http://www1.experts-exchange.com/grouping_computers.html

> I also think that there should be some faster way to join.

Joining is not necessary because now anonymous users can add stuff.

> Let join everybody easily and add informationen which then must be
> reviewed by the maintainers before it's published.

I have another approach: People can add stuff as anonymous. This is
presented below "Your Links:", "Your Questions " and so on. Then
a Moderator of a Subject needs to select the good links and put them
on top in the "Our Links". Maybe the naming could be better,
like "Our selected Links", or something like that. 

Users first see the quality stuff that has been reviewed, and then
also the unmoderated stuff that anyone can add. People can even
add a comment saying that a certain link needs to be moderated up
because it has helped them. Perhaps also, comments, links, snippets
should be moderated anyway ?

> Put also the names of the contributors near their
> contributions that they have some motivation to add content. 

Thanks for the hint. I have added this.

> Next I am not sure if I really understood the site architecture from the
> first page ;-)
> First I see portals (and the new user might not know what you understand
> under a portal) and then I see headlines like "SIG Portals" (again portals?)

I have removed the SIG portals.

> and the Zope book etc. and I don't know what this now actually is (projects,
> but this is not shown there).

All the stuff below will move into the Portals. If someone wants to
get in, they need to select what community they belong to. How 
can we tell people that they need to select their entry level ?

> I will try to order this for me a little bit and write it down. Maybe you
> also have additions to it. Then I will try to map this description to some
> layout (as ZDP was changing quite frequently the last days this maybe should
> be done in a separate place and published when it's finish. Thus users of ZDP
> might not be confused by a new layout everyday ;-)

I think you should be allowed to program in public. This way people will
know how much hard work it is.

> So, got a little long and maybe also a little chaotic.. hope you don't mind.. :)

I have tried to make the necessary changes from what you noted. I think
that your comments have been very constructive, and it has been really fun
discussing this with you !

Best regards,

Maik Röder