Hi, Ray. There is no point in continuing to bang your head against the pre3.0 release. Things have moved on quite a lot since then. Please see http://www.zope.org/Products/PTK/install for information on getting the latest version. Mike. -- Mike Pelletier email: mike@digicool.com Mild mannered software developer icq: 7127228 by day, super villain by night. phone: 519-884-2434