[Zope-CMF] ZPT and CMF

[Nat Harari]

Yeah. I even have it printed out and it is currently sitting in front of me in my "Zope Bible" binder (wherein I have printed out
all relevant faqs about Zope for handy instant reference) but...

1) I'm a designer, not a coder.
2) It doesn't really say anything specific. I.E.

  a) It doesn't give a tutorial with a program like Dreamweaver.
  b) It doesn't go into things like moving around blocks of code in layers in Dreamweaver.
  c) It basically assumes you know what the heck it is talking about. :)

I'm using Zope, CMF, and Blark. First of all, because I need a dynamic site and don't have the time to code one by hand, nor learn
how to. Second of all, because it is powerful and when I do put it up, I will have a little more time to learn it and make it much
better than the default one that I did put up. Third of all, because I support open source and want to do what I can to try to
spread the word about how good it is. I could use Microsoft's crap, because we are fully licensed and own all the copies of
everything I need, but I don't want to. I want to use Zope because it is better and because it is more powerful, and because it
isn't supporting the devil. It isn't a question of money since we already own all the server stuff for things like this. I would
just rather not use it.

But I am a designer, foremost. I'm not a coder. And reading lines of code doesn't explain much to me at all. I was hoping that with
WebDAV, I wouldn't really have to learn much code at all.

http://www.somethingwonderful.com/misc/aim4.jpg

That is a mock-up of what I am trying to make, using Zope, CMF, and Blark. That is what I have to have ready by Monday. It isn't all
that hard to create in Dreamweaver, but I'll be damned if I understand how to make it work with Zope without some sort of visual
tutorial that a newbie like myself can learn. As you can see, it uses most everything that Zope/CMF/Blark uses, and almost exactly
in the same format. I just need to know how to change some things - like move them around - and easily add my own graphics. I know
this list is probably replete with coders who are rolling their eyes at my inability to understand and comprehend these simple
operations that they perform each day, but there really isn't anything else I can honestly say about it. I've RTFM several times,
printed it out, highlighted much of it, and some of it is still Greek to me. I have no idea what to do at this point. I've been to
zopezen (currently down since yesterday, it seems), zope newbies, zopegeeks, zdp, and a few other links that I've followed from the
myriad number of zope sites out there. I love them all, but I still don't see anything that's relevant to a total newbie coder who
is trying to learn with a heavy background in design and little else. I know people are probably thinking - even right now as they
read this line - "well, what the hell are you doing as a webmaster using Zope, then?" And my reply would be: "I'm trying to learn
really fast, and Zope's users and sites basically say that you don't need to know much at all to use it, so duh." Honestly, I find
it great to use and love it, but trying to code in it is very confusing for me. I know I'm not the only one out there because I've
seen a few other similar comments by others who have peeped up in mousy ways (like myself) and basically get told the same thing:
RTFM. I have read it. I've re-read it. I've even done the tutorials. It doesn't help. I can't code an application myself and I've
got no idea where to start customizing things.

So if somebody has a really good, easy, tutorial for a newbie to learn with who knows mostly design and not code, it would be
extremely well appreciated and earn you some gold stars in my book, at least.

BTW, this isn't ranting on your reply: I'm glad you replied. Very few people seem to reply to my requests, and I have absolutely no
idea why. Maybe it's me though. :) Sorry I snapped, but I've got to get it out because it is frustrating as hell. So thanks for
giving me the opportunity to rant my butt off, possibly making a fool of myself, but at least telling people how I feel. I'm still
using Zope. I love Zope. I know people are doing this without pay, so I'm not bitching about that. I will do my part in promoting it
on my list (several thousand people at the very least) and my brother's lists (several million people at the very least), for free.
But to do this, I need a nice set of running sites that look good and are easy for me to create in some way.

Any help, once more, will be incredibly well appreciated. And if you actually do get anywhere near Manhattan after that, I'll even
buy you enough beers to get you extremely well soused upon.

Thanks,

Nat.



-----Original Message-----
From: zope-cmf-admin@zope.org [mailto:zope-cmf-admin@zope.org]On Behalf
Of Paul Winkler
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 2:32 PM
To: Nat Harari
Cc: zope-cmf@zope.org
Subject: Re: [Zope-CMF] ZPT and CMF


Hi Nat,

I haven't used dreamweaver & WebDAV, I use emacs and FTP.

But I found this page that might help you - have you seen this one yet?
http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Articles/ZPT3