[Zope-CMF] ZPT and CMF

Erik Lange erik@mmmanager.org
Tue, 2 Oct 2001 22:49:43 +0200


Hi Nat:-)

I'm sure we've all felt as desperate as you feel right now - one just can't
see the forest for all the trees right in front of you, being a
Zope-newbie - thumbs up for your persistance!

Hang in there, it's worth it in the end ;-)

The FM you're looking for just haven't been written yet, and I'm also
afraight that Zope/CMF at it's current state needs a steady coder to set it
up nice and userfriendly - out of the box.

It's ALLLlllmost there... but all the major-products must support ZPT and
then there's stil a bit of coding, to get the "drag 'n' drop portal" you're
wanting today, and that I have no doubt Zope will be tommorow!

On the other hand... your mock-up dosn't seem so difficult for me to make
into a CMF-site (that's easy for me to say - cheap point, sorry *LOL*), if
you sends me the graphic elements, I can put them into a CMF, and explain
where I put the different elements for you and how the pages are
constructed - and if we're really smart, we writes down what we're doing in
a FM for future Zopistas ;-)

Anyway, keep on fighting!
Erik


> -----Original Message-----
> From: zope-cmf-admin@zope.org [mailto:zope-cmf-admin@zope.org]On Behalf
> Of Nat Harari
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 9:27 PM
> To: 'Paul Winkler'
> Cc: zope-cmf@zope.org
> Subject: RE: [Zope-CMF] ZPT and CMF
>
>
> Yeah. I even have it printed out and it is currently sitting in
> front of me in my "Zope Bible" binder (wherein I have printed out
> all relevant faqs about Zope for handy instant reference) but...
>
> 1) I'm a designer, not a coder.
> 2) It doesn't really say anything specific. I.E.
>
>   a) It doesn't give a tutorial with a program like Dreamweaver.
>   b) It doesn't go into things like moving around blocks of code
> in layers in Dreamweaver.
>   c) It basically assumes you know what the heck it is talking about. :)
>
> I'm using Zope, CMF, and Blark. First of all, because I need a
> dynamic site and don't have the time to code one by hand, nor learn
> how to. Second of all, because it is powerful and when I do put
> it up, I will have a little more time to learn it and make it much
> better than the default one that I did put up. Third of all,
> because I support open source and want to do what I can to try to
> spread the word about how good it is. I could use Microsoft's
> crap, because we are fully licensed and own all the copies of
> everything I need, but I don't want to. I want to use Zope
> because it is better and because it is more powerful, and because it
> isn't supporting the devil. It isn't a question of money since we
> already own all the server stuff for things like this. I would
> just rather not use it.
>
> But I am a designer, foremost. I'm not a coder. And reading lines
> of code doesn't explain much to me at all. I was hoping that with
> WebDAV, I wouldn't really have to learn much code at all.
>
> http://www.somethingwonderful.com/misc/aim4.jpg
>
> That is a mock-up of what I am trying to make, using Zope, CMF,
> and Blark. That is what I have to have ready by Monday. It isn't all
> that hard to create in Dreamweaver, but I'll be damned if I
> understand how to make it work with Zope without some sort of visual
> tutorial that a newbie like myself can learn. As you can see, it
> uses most everything that Zope/CMF/Blark uses, and almost exactly
> in the same format. I just need to know how to change some things
> - like move them around - and easily add my own graphics. I know
> this list is probably replete with coders who are rolling their
> eyes at my inability to understand and comprehend these simple
> operations that they perform each day, but there really isn't
> anything else I can honestly say about it. I've RTFM several times,
> printed it out, highlighted much of it, and some of it is still
> Greek to me. I have no idea what to do at this point. I've been to
> zopezen (currently down since yesterday, it seems), zope newbies,
> zopegeeks, zdp, and a few other links that I've followed from the
> myriad number of zope sites out there. I love them all, but I
> still don't see anything that's relevant to a total newbie coder who
> is trying to learn with a heavy background in design and little
> else. I know people are probably thinking - even right now as they
> read this line - "well, what the hell are you doing as a
> webmaster using Zope, then?" And my reply would be: "I'm trying to learn
> really fast, and Zope's users and sites basically say that you
> don't need to know much at all to use it, so duh." Honestly, I find
> it great to use and love it, but trying to code in it is very
> confusing for me. I know I'm not the only one out there because I've
> seen a few other similar comments by others who have peeped up in
> mousy ways (like myself) and basically get told the same thing:
> RTFM. I have read it. I've re-read it. I've even done the
> tutorials. It doesn't help. I can't code an application myself and I've
> got no idea where to start customizing things.
>
> So if somebody has a really good, easy, tutorial for a newbie to
> learn with who knows mostly design and not code, it would be
> extremely well appreciated and earn you some gold stars in my
> book, at least.
>
> BTW, this isn't ranting on your reply: I'm glad you replied. Very
> few people seem to reply to my requests, and I have absolutely no
> idea why. Maybe it's me though. :) Sorry I snapped, but I've got
> to get it out because it is frustrating as hell. So thanks for
> giving me the opportunity to rant my butt off, possibly making a
> fool of myself, but at least telling people how I feel. I'm still
> using Zope. I love Zope. I know people are doing this without
> pay, so I'm not bitching about that. I will do my part in promoting it
> on my list (several thousand people at the very least) and my
> brother's lists (several million people at the very least), for free.
> But to do this, I need a nice set of running sites that look good
> and are easy for me to create in some way.
>
> Any help, once more, will be incredibly well appreciated. And if
> you actually do get anywhere near Manhattan after that, I'll even
> buy you enough beers to get you extremely well soused upon.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nat.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: zope-cmf-admin@zope.org [mailto:zope-cmf-admin@zope.org]On Behalf
> Of Paul Winkler
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 2:32 PM
> To: Nat Harari
> Cc: zope-cmf@zope.org
> Subject: Re: [Zope-CMF] ZPT and CMF
>
>
> Hi Nat,
>
> I haven't used dreamweaver & WebDAV, I use emacs and FTP.
>
> But I found this page that might help you - have you seen this one yet?
> http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Articles/ZPT3
>
>
>
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