[Zope-dev] RE: [Zope] Re: Zope hanging (poss. threads-related)

Michel Pelletier michel@digicool.com
Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:36:12 -0700


Marcus Collins wrote:
> 
>   http://www.zope.org/Members/tseaver/Projects/HighlyAvailableZope/
> 
> Tres, I also agree that this should not get lost amongst all the regular
> traffic. This list is busy enough as it is. However, perhaps other folk
> (Jerome Alet, others?) are just now beginning to say "me too", and so the
> rest of the list does need a chance to be involved.

I agree that the rest of the _community_ needs that chance.  The subtle
semantic change makes a difference in this case.

> Not everyone is a member
> at zope.org either, and perhaps not everyone understands how Wiki works.

It is not because the interface is in any way complex; less complex than
the interface to your mailer, or the interface to amazon.com, or ebay. 
Why people don't understand _why_ it works is not because they don't
understand the mechanism, it's because they don't understand the
philosophy of it, the Zen, so to speak.  This comes only with usage and
clear explanation.

> It
> can also prove difficult, unless someone is moderating the posts, to not get
> tangled, whereas a threading mail client...

...has the exact same problem.  Threading does not offer any refinement
mechanism to the information and enforces a rather inflexible
organizational structure.

And personally, as a Wiki moderator, I delete agressively.  If someone
makes a comment then I allways reflect that comment in the material
itself, or reorganize their contribution into a structure, and then I
delete their comment.  The information must be kept refined so as to be
as clear as possible.

> this is basically just the same
> argument as was levelled about a week ago at the suggestion of using Wiki
> for bug tracking.

But bug tracking is capturing and workflow, here, we want the benefits
of capturing, which is what Wiki excells at.  A dozen people have
contributed to this thread of discussion.  What platforms are they all
running?  How many of them are using FastCGI?  What versions of Zope are
they using?  How many of them are running with more than 4 threads? 
What are their names?  How can we reach them if we think we fixed the
problem?  What if the situation changes and there is a clue in the
delta, if we don't capture the first value how do we compare it to the
second?
 
> Wiki is a fine thing, but I noticed now, when www.zope.org was back up, that
> despite having logged in, as soon as I when to the above URL, I was "Guest"
> again, and unable to annotate the discussion... (no "edit" link, etc.) Maybe
> this is a symptom of operator failure?

Works fine for me every time, perhaps your browser caches aggresively.

> For now, however, I'll continue
> CC'ing the zope list, unless you specifically wish it to be shunted to the
> zope-dev list?

Cross-posting is frowned upon.  One list or the other please.

I have to strongly dissagree with your notion of continuting this thread
solely on the list.  Certainly the list should be used for discussion,
but if relevant information is not captured then the discussion is
largely moot if the good clues slip through our collective cracks.

-Michel