[Zope-dev] using the monitor - anyone have any tips???

[Jeff Hoffman]

On Tue, 29 Feb 2000, Damian Morton wrote:

> > On Tue, 29 Feb 2000, Damian Morton wrote:
> >
> > > I can quite happily traverse the object and its inheritance tree using
> > > obj.__dict__ and obj.__class__.__dict__ and obj.__class__.__bases__ and
> > > such, but there seem to be a whole bunch of attributes and
> > methods available
> > > for objects that I can only guess at. I assume they are
> > acquired rather than
> > > inherited. Not being really familiar with acquisition (even
> > after reading
> > > all the available docs), any tips on how best to traverse the
> > acquisition
> > > path on my search for attributes and methods would be greatly
> > appreciated.
> 
> > From: Jeff K. Hoffman [mailto:jeff.hoffman@goingv.com]
> >
> > It is very hard to come at Zope and say, "Show me all of the possible
> > methods I could apply on this object through acquisition." It is quite
> > easy, though, to say, "Can I call this method on this object, through
> > natural means or through acquisition?"
> 
> Hmm, I find myself wanting learn as much as possible. When Im looking at a
> given object, I can learn heaps by examining all of the methods related to
> the object. Thats the power of object-orientation.

One of the powers, yes. Others of note would be encapsulation,
inheritance, polymorphism, etc.

> Being able to take a stab at a method name, and then asking how to apply
> it to my object seems very weird to me, especially given my meagre
> knowlege of the possible methods. 

In re-reading my message, I realize that I may have mis-stated the
reality. You can't ask Zope, "Given this method name, which means will you
use to apply it: Normal or Acquisition?" What you have, instead, is,
"Given this method name, try normal application first. If that doesn't
work, try acquisition. If that doesn't work, throw an exception."

Perhaps others would be better equipped to instruct you on how to learn.
Myself, I read the Zope source code and look at how other parts of Zope
are implemented (the management interface itself is implemented in Zope;
there is nothing special about the management interface that you couldn't
do yourself.)

> For a beginer, the options need to be laid out and explored, that how I like
> to learn.

I would argue that, for most purposes, the methods and attributes of an
object are the most important things for you to know. Methods are
acquired, yes, but not as often as they are called directly. IMHO.

> Im really not sure how to approach learning Zope given the current
> state of the documentation, and the seeming impossibility of the object
> browser I seek.

I know Amos is working on documenting the Zope APIs. This will go a long
way towards delivering the help you desire. The object browser has been
discussed on this list in the past, and was discussed at IPC8. It ain't
gonna happen, unless something changes.

> Am I missing something? (othe than a complete mastery of the subject)

A good understanding of acquisition goes a LONG way. Other than that,
exploring stuff that already works (learning by example) is a good way to
go. 

The documentation IS helpful; I am training our webmaster in Zope, and
he has had the reference/tutorial manual we got at IPC8 by his side for
the last week. During that week, coming from a proprietary platform with
zero Zope experience, he implemented a web chat room (using ZODB for
persistence; he did not use SQL because he wanted to learn Zope), and a
few other cool doodads. Needless to say, I was impressed.

Lastly, this list is an incredible resource. In the short time I have been
involved in the community, I have seen a number of people go from newbies
asking "stupid" questions to experts answering the "stupid" questions of
others. It's all a matter of persistence, at this point.

--Jeff

---
Jeff K. Hoffman                                         704.849.0731 x108
Chief Technology Officer                                mailto:jeff@goingv.com
Going Virtual, L.L.C.                                   http://www.goingv.com/