[Zope-dev] Zope Futures discussion: your input

Stefan Kuzminski stefan@umevoice.com
Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:40:31 -0800 (PST)


>>>>> ">" == Chris McDonough <chrism@digicool.com> writes:

>> I agree that we have lots of work to do on making Zope more understandable
>> and faster to "get a grip on". We're struggling right now with what it
>> means to do that, whether it means concentrating on documentation, building
>> a simpler interface, ripping stuff out or what-have-you. Examples of the
>> community and DC trying to address these problems are evident in the Zope
>> Mozilla Initiative, the soon(really!)-to-be-released Portal Toolkit, and
>> the shiny new help system that Amos has been working hard on.
>> Unfortunately, all of it takes time.

Just a thought..  addressing the split in the user demographic between
people from the HTML world and from the programming world.  Perhaps the HTML
people could be gently introduced by exporting the the string substitution
syntax which is so nice in python.

i.e. <htmlcode> %s <morehtml> % <more_html>  

More powerful programming constructs, variables, iteration, etc.. could be
introduced as the user learns and needs them.  It's an observation on
how to teach a HTML writer programming, give them something at first that
relates to what they know and is powerful but not so powerful as they would
get into trouble by pushing it too far.. ( since the string substitution
contains no state machine )..
 
>> My opinion, for what its worth, is that DTML is valuable because it lets
>> non-Python programmers have a crack at building simple dynamic pages in an
>> environment that they're familiar with (ie. in the context and style of
>> HTML). But I do think that we've possibly allowed DTML to overstep its
>> bounds as a reporting language, and now we've got people trying to make it
>> do things that could be infinitely better handled in Python.

>> But we've also got external methods and Evan Simpson has contributed Python
>> Methods. So I think we're slowly reaching a point where Zope is an ideal
>> environment for Python programmers and a less ideal but still very usable
>> environment for non-Python programmers. I would suggest giving both tools a
>> workout.

>> I also would suggest that if you've got the time, we could definitely use
>> your help simplifying Zope in other ways. For example, both the Zope
>> Mozilla Initiative and the Zope Documentation Project could use reliable
>> expert help. Both projects are extremely interesting too.