core i18n support (was [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev)

[Robert Rottermann]

Who ever takes the lead, I will follow

What I believe however, it should make no difference which of the two
approaches is used.
Even to an extent that both could live next to each other.

What we need is a translation of everything that ever has a chance to bubble
up to the screen. This is done by wrapping it in a translate call.
By default this translation does nothing. Just returns its input unaltered.
This costs very little processing time but provides a hook where an other
process that does the real processing take over.

We have been successfully doing that (using C++ and Lisp) for well over 10
years.
I am using it now in the CMF sites I created (not many yet).

So our first task is not to decide what technique to use for the translation
but to list what should be translated, and how to best structure the
translation process. By structuring I mean splitting Zope into parts should
be considered a unit that is translated as a whole.CMF would be one such
unit.
i18n covers more than only software translation. However this is where we
must start. Since Zope does not have a complicated userinterface I believe
it is no complicated task.

Guet Nacht!

Robert



----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Everitt" <paul@zope.com>
To: "Robert Rottermann" <robert@redcor.ch>
Cc: <zope-dev@zope.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: core i18n support (was [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev)


>
> As both Robert and Joachim (in another message) have noted, core i18n
> support is blocked by a single issue: there are two different approaches
>   and insufficient consensus about resolving them.
>
> The first criteria that I have is whether someone is willing to become a
> CVS contributor and shepherd i18n in a responsible fashion, as Martijn
> Faassen has done with XML.  In this sense we suffer from an embarassment
> of riches: both Localizer and ZBabel have people willing to step up and
> provide leadership.
>
> Unfortunately there isn't someone with sufficient authority on the
> subject to annoint one as more right than the other.  And an arbitrary
> decision by ZC is sure to leave hard feelings.  Unfortunately this needs
> to get cleared up soon, so that an i18n team can start influencing the
> component architecture.
>
> I suggest that Stefane and Juan David (Localizer/Nuxeo) and Stephan,
> Andrew, and Joachim (ZBabel/iuveno) have a little chat and make a
> recommendation for a small next step.
>
> --Paul
>
> Robert Rottermann wrote:
>
> > Andreas,
> > sorry if I have not reacted to a questions for assistance in the realm
of
> > i18n. I must have missed them.
> > I rarely go to EuroZope since this site seems badly maintained.
> >
> > However I really would like to help with the internationalization of
Zope
> > since most of what we do here a my company must be multilingual.
> > I do have considerable experience making programs "translatable" and I
did a
> > multilanguage CMF (with which I never was really happy)
> > Some 6 Months ago I started to collect what is there regarding i18n and
> > Zope. I did get a sizable number of answers. However there where two
rather
> > unfortunate tendencies:
> > - multiple, different and incompatible attempts from "our" side
> > - missing involvement and therefore no "shepherding" from ZC's side
> >
> > If, as Paul assures, the second point is about to be rectified it might
be
> > now the time to do a second such compilation and then start "doing" it.
> >
> > Robert
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: "Andreas Jung" <andreas@andreas-jung.com>
> > To: "Joachim Werner" <joe@iuveno-net.de>; "Paul Everitt"
<paul@zope.com>;
> > "Robert Rottermann" <robert@redcor.ch>
> > Cc: <zope-dev@zope.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 2:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev
> >
> >
> >
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Joachim Werner" <joe@iuveno-net.de>
> >>To: "Paul Everitt" <paul@zope.com>; "Robert Rottermann"
<robert@redcor.ch>
> >>Cc: <zope-dev@zope.org>
> >>Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 08:22
> >>Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>The second is pretty exciting as well.  I saw a presentation in Paris
> >>>>
> > by
> >
> >>>>Juan David Palomar, of Localizer fame.  (The presentation is now up at
> >>>>http://estce.act.uji.es:9673/localizer).  The presentation impressed
> >>>>
> > me
> >
> >>>>on the need to get someone into the core of Zope that knows all these
> >>>>details, but also convinced me that the Zope3 effort needs to
> >>>>
> > anticipate
> >
> >>>>the needs of i18n and l10n.
> >>>>
> >>>>ZBabel and Localizer are good starts, but as jdavid says, both should
> >>>>
> > be
> >
> >>>>thought of as non-core projects that start influencing the core
> >>>>step-by-step.
> >>>>
> >>>Hi!
> >>>
> >>>I fully agree that ZBabel and Localizer don't have to be core projects
> >>>
> >>right
> >>
> >>>now. But the core must be made fit for i18n to make sure that we don't
> >>>
> >>have
> >>
> >>>to patch things like the user folder implementation or the Help! button
> >>>
> > in
> >
> >>>the code. In Zopw 2.5, there still seem to be "hot spots" to fix with
> >>>
> >>regard
> >>
> >>>to i18n.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Of course there are hot spots. I have asked multiple times for help on
the
> >>mailing
> >>lists and the Eurozope site to identify such related hot spots.
> >>Also I had expect some input of the community regarding at unicode
support
> >>inside Zope. But there has been no feedback. It looks like no one needs
> >>unicode
> >>support in Zope ?! :-) Anyway, as a first step Zope 2.5 provides full
> >>unicode
> >>support for the ZCatalog. I would like to see some volunteers that could
> >>help
> >>to set up a list of requirements (the list is almost there on the
Eurozope
> >>site
> >>I think) and possible solutions that could be integrated into the Zope
> >>
> > core.
> >
> >>Referring to the "open letter to zope-dev" I could also charge the
> >>
> > community
> >
> >>for zero feedback. But this is not the place and time for flamewars.
> >>
> > Instead
> >
> >>we should bundle the power of ZC and the community. The opening of the
CVS
> >>is a good starting point but I would like to see more people
contributing.
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >>Andreas
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
>