[Zope-dev] State of ZPatterns

[Spicklemire, Jerry]

Itai wrote:

> My understanding was, though, 
> that TransWarp will replace ZPatterns as the best tool for object 
> model based development, which means that the idea of developing 
> ZPatterns code with a view for long term future reuse suddenly isn't 
> that attractive.

My inclination exactly. I would feel so much better if all these 
geniuses would just jump "straight to Go". It seems, though, that 
they have to work through this "unproductive" prototyping stage 
in order to get there. Of course, I can't complain, since just 
watching the breakneck evolution of Python, Zope, ZPatterns, and 
all the amazing goodies that show up here and at Zope.org leave 
my head spinning. 

If I recall, the original RIPP slide presentation stated pretty 
clearly that the toolkit that came to be called ZPatterns was 
really just the groundwork needed to achieve a much larger goal. 
So, TransWarp is that much closer to reality, and it took ZPatterns 
to make that happen. The stamina alone is mind boggling, let alone 
the fact that useful stuff, _very_useful_stuff_, was generated 
along the way. 

also:

> I expect the ZPatterns-based e-commerce app 
> I'm building today to make the e-commerce app I build in 12 months a 
> lot easier to build. So any changes in the basic tools I use bother 
> me.

Me too. My preference is to have only the best solutions right from 
the start, and to only have to learn things once. Problem is, after 
14 years doing this stuff, none of it has had the simple courtesy to 
just stand still! The good news is, for the most part, the trend is 
in the general direction of improvement. Again, how can I complain? 

I don't pretend to fully "get" any of the stuff these guys, nor the 
DC crew, not to mention the PythonLabs team, and all the astounding 
folks on the lists are cooking up for the rest of us. All that I 
can say for certain is that based on past history, it will be even 
more amazing than the stuff that has me totally dazzled already.

One thing that has definitely grabbed my attention about TransWarp 
is the goal of not only making Zope development more flexible and 
powerful, but to bring the same facility to "Extra-Zope" development. 
We all hang out here because of the incomparable degree to which 
Zope has empowered Web development. But Jim Fulton himself has said 
how tickled he is that folks are starting to use ZODB independent of 
Zope. Zope is, after all, an amalgam of several Python modules, any 
one of which can be pulled into a non-Zope application. Right now, 
at this point in time, the Web is absolutely critical, and anything 
that helps us deal with the crude state of the Web (e.g. browser hell) 
is a life-saver. 

So, Zope's greatest strength is its Web-centricity, but it can also 
be it's Achille's heal, once the Web reaches maturity, and technology 
moves on. Something like TransWarp can assure that all the goodies that 
we build for Zope can continue to live on and remain viable, long after 
"The Web" is a quaint artifact, a footnote in the primitive history of 
an ubiquitous Global Communication System.

Thanks Phil, Ty, Jim, Brian, Paul, Shane, Tres, Michel, Amos, Guido, 
Tim, Ken, and way too many more to mention!
Jerry S.