[Zope-dev] IMO ZClasses should stay

[Andreas Jung]

--On 24. März 2006 12:03:42 -0500 Jim Fulton <jim at zope.com> wrote:


>
> There are lots of people who have good uses for ZClasses for
> quick one-off projects.  I've heard from some of them.
>

>
> There are lots of people who use Zope who don't fit this
> definition.  I care about these people. :)

I've haven't seen those ppl raising their hand when making the proposal.
I assume they died of ZClasses-disease.

>> Through-the-web
>> scripters can write their applications using ZPT, Python scripts etc.
>
> No, they also need to be able to create simple content types.

A somewhat talented developer will succeed in doing filesystem-based
development. The scripters I've seen so far either developed their skills 
or had other ppl in their team doing a related development.


>> Only ppl with legacy code or ppl unwilling to migrate their apps to a
>> filesystem-based implementation are still using ZClasses. None of us is
>> announcing ZClasses as solution to develop wit Zope.
>
> ZClasses are not a good solution for developing products or
> complex applications requiring maintenance. They are a
> reasonable solution for quick one-off apps.
>

That's what we are trying to tell to the ppl with the deprecating warning.
ZClasses can be/are a one-way road.

>
>> Do we need something better? Can't ppl solve their problems with the
>> solutions mentioned above?
>
> I think we need a good "scripting" story for non developers.  A better
> story might look nothing like ZClasses. It might not even be TTW,
> but I hate to toss ZClasses until we have something better.

As mentioned in my other mail. We will keep than as long they are 
maintainable in a reasonable way but we must tell the ppl clearly about the 
pros and  cons (especially the cons).

>
>  > We should spend this time
>> on useful Zope projects and not in supporting ancient concepts that
>> don't help the majority of the Zope developers.
>
> If the only things we can support are things that I can work on, we are
> in big trouble.

Right but as you know Zope 2.8 was delayed  for a long time because you 
were the only person able or willing to fix the outstanding ZClasses 
problems.

>  I can help out with really deep things.

Of course we appreciate that but having a single person to be able to deal 
with singularities as ZClasses is always a bottleneck especially since we 
changed to a timed-based release schedule.


 There are
> some shallow things that could be done, like writing docs and removing
> harmful features, which should be UI work.  You are right, If no one
> but me is willing to do any work on them, they should probably go.

'willing' to work on something is possibly the largest problem in the Zope 2
world right now. I do also prefer to spend my time on more interesting 
projects in the Zope world than digging through ancient, scary code.

Andreas



    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
   -   Andreas Jung            ZOPYX Ltd. & Co KG                        -
  -   E-mail: info at zopyx.com   Web: www.zopyx.com, www.zopyx.de         -
   -----------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 186 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/attachments/20060324/d9ce1975/attachment.bin