[Zope-dev] who wants to maintain Zope 3?

[Roger Ineichen]

Hi Martijn
  
> Betreff: Re: [Zope-dev] who wants to maintain Zope 3?
> 
> Hey,
> 
> Jim Fulton wrote:
> > I don't think these "bits" are cleanly separated.  For 
> example, if a 
> > content component has some views, are those ZMI bits?
> 
> Yes. zope.container doesn't define views. zope.app.container 
> did (and does). "browser" directories are generally not part 
> of the Zope Toolkit, though there are some exceptions 
> (zope.app.publisher.browser, zope.app.form.browser).
> 
> > Can you identify projects that are in or out of the toolkit?  What 
> > about zope.publisher? zope.security? zope.app.publication?
> 
> Currently all three are in.
> 
> zope.publisher + zope.app.publication might not remain in 
> permanently if a better way of doing things evolves, but 
> that's up in the air right now.
> 
> [snip]
> > I agree with the idea of simply supporting a library of 
> components.   
> > I'm uncomfortable with the idea of saying you're going to 
> "shrink the 
> > codebase" without saying what's going.
> 
> The ZMI is the bit that is going right now. Since we're 
> factoring non-ZMI bits out of zope.app.*, eventually that'll 
> mean a whole range of
> zope.app.* packages will not be maintained by the Zope 
> Toolkit developers. The other bits are up for discussion.
> 
> We don't intend to stop people from maintaining other 
> packages outside the toolkit.
> 
> > I don't want to see a separate
> > "Zope 3 " project distinct from the "Zope Toolkit". 
> > I do want to see
> > the components we're using live within a project.  If the "Zope 
> > Toolkit" doesn't include components in common use, then I 
> don't think 
> > it has a lot of value.
> 
> I'm not in the business of maintaining Zope 3 myself; I 
> mainly care about how Grok uses it, and how I can integrate 
> libraries in the ecosystem into my apps.
> 
> The Zope Toolkit includes components in common use by Grok, 
> Zope 2, and Zope 3.
> 
> The Zope 3 project always attempted to be far more than just 
> being a bunch of libraries. It attempted to be a system you 
> can install and find documentation for and start developing 
> with. When you install it, you see a user interface. It had a 
> group of people who cared about it that you could talk to. 
> There are a lot of concepts associated with Zope 3.
> 
> What I'm trying to do is to separate these concepts, which is 
> why we're going through some confusion.
> 
> The Zope Toolkit is something that doesn't have an 
> installation story for the whole. It does have some 
> documentation about the whole: how it is developed primarily. 
> But instead of having documentation for the whole ("Build 
> your app with the Zope Toolkit, here's how to get started!" 
> is not going to be there), it will focus on documentation 
> about how to use the individual libraries. It leaves how to 
> use it as an integrated whole to other projects. The Zope 
> Toolkit has implementations of content objects such as the 
> container. It doesn't have a user interface; it just has a 
> way to construct user interfaces.
> 
> The Zope Toolkit is there to serve the people who use it. 
> That's people who use a large range of these libraries, or 
> just some of them, and projects that build on top of these libraries.
> 
> The question at hand is whether people care about a project 
> that presents itself as a "whole", uses a lot of the Zope 
> Toolkit, and has an installation story (and possibly a user 
> interface), and that isn't Grok or Zope 2, but like Zope 3. 
> If so, we could have a Zope 3 project that cares about those 
> things (naming discussion aside).

Yes, absolutly. I will help to support such a Zope Toolkit
management app which will allow to get rid of the zmi part.

Regards
Roger Ineichen

> Regards,
> 
> Martijn
> 
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