[ZWeb] "Zope Exits"

[Mark]

Hi,

On Aug 23, 2004, at 6:33 PM, Chris Withers wrote:

> Mark wrote:
>>> The rest comprise ZopeMag, which is a teaser site for paid for 
>>> content,
>> If I read this again on this mailinglist I'm going to puke. ZopeMag 
>> is the "only"
>> Zope Magazine. Period. We are not a teaser site for paid for content.
>
> I'm sorry you take offence at this, but unless you can say otherwise, 
> it is an accurate summary of your business model.

Your point is a simplification and not a representative at all of what 
we are trying to do with ZopeMag.
But my point that ZopeMag is the only Zope Magazine remains valid.

>> subscribers. Obviously there is a demand for the service we provide.
>
> I could say the same about my business, or Enfold, or Plone Solutions, 
> or Nuxeo, or any other company that runs their business on Zope. The 
> difference is we don't have a link from every page of Zope.org, and I 
> wouldn't expect us to.

Comparing a company with a Magazine is an apples and oranges comparison.

None of these companies publish a Zope Magazine and I would argue that 
none of these have over the years have consistently written or will 
write, edit or published and paid for as much free documentation as 
ZopeMag has and will continue to via our main site and our weekly 
summary of events (weekly.zopemag.com).

What you are also ignoring is that people don't actually have to pay 
money to get a subscription. We give a free subscription to ZopeMag to 
anyone who either writes one (!) article or two products reviews that 
we publish. We then also pay the authors and an editor. Sorry we 
haven't figured out a way to do this for free.  But to summarize:

- Anyone can get a ZopeMag subscription by either buying one or by 
contributing/writing (and are paid)
- If people don't have the time or value their time they can buy a 
subscription

>>> and ZEA, which from what I know of it, operates as a "bidding 
>>> collective" that Paul runs now.
>> That's not really fair to the ZEA by any means but I'm sure others 
>> can defend their link.
>
> I haven't seen any comment so far, but AFAIK, Paul left this list 
> after it's total lack of effectiveness last year.
> BUT, if a company appears as a member of a trade organisation (as ZEA 
> does on http://www.zopeuk.org) and successfully bids for projects that 
> companies such as mine would as like to bid for, then I'd question 
> free advertising on every page of zope.org...

Possibly, Paul has left this list -- but ZopeMag didn't join ZEA at the 
time to start a bidding network but instead to
help fund an organization to promote Zope use in Europe. Why don't you 
ask him for a statement?

>>> There'sd also Plone.org, which is a pure single-product site. It 
>>> does seem to be a bit out of place given the lack of other product 
>>> links (CPS, Silva, or even Squishdot ;-)
>> That's certainly worthwhile discussing.
>
> Indeed, and the sole purpose of my original mail to zope-web was to 
> elicit discussion, so, can anyone suggest a neutral set of guidelines 
> for what sites should appear in Zope Exits?

Certainly don't object to this.

> I'd suggest:
>
> """
> Sites that are centered around supporting the Zope community and do 
> not exist primarily to charge for services or content relating to the 
> site.
> """

With that definition one could argue that not even Zope.org qualifies.

What a lot of people don't get is that an investment in time is the 
first step to a financial investment in professional
Zope services.

If people like what they see in for example the Zope Book (they 
consider the technology viable) they will in all probability pay for 
assistance/consulting or a training session at a later date while they 
try to accomplish the project. Looking at Zope Corp's business model 
Zope.org is designed to instill a want -- a want that they ideally 
serve.

This is unless I'm mistaken a crucial part of Zope Corp's original 
business model.Therefore Zope.org primarily exists to instill the want 
in Zope, and to grow "the market"  enough that Zope Corp can be a very 
profitable company by providing
services relating to Zope.

Following your definition not even Zope would qualify as a Zope exit -- 
and that would be a shame!

And by the way when a company evaluates a technology they typically 
will also look at the entire eco system which
includes questions like:

- Is local, reliable service available?
- What about Training?
- What about Documentation?

in the last example, I would argue,  being able to say that a Zope 
Magazine exists is a good thing not just for ZopeMag but a validation 
of the marketplace as a whole. Further I would argue that a lot of 
ZopeMag is a labor of love.

If you could not earn at least a part of your living providing Zope 
based services would you be able to spend as much time with Zope and 
have such a vested interest in helping with the community site? I 
honestly doubt it. Not that you are not an honorable man :-)

Zope.org is selling you man! (ok, maybe the site could be a better 
seller -- but we are all working on it).

Cheers,

Mark