[Zope] Giving up in frustration

[Hadar Pedhazur]

Bradford wrote:
> This is unusual, I realize, but I'm going to tell you why
> I'm giving up on Zope now.

[I'm snipping most of your post, because you say the cogent
part above, and follow it up with a plea for better
documentation].

I am very sorry to see you go. We all understand and feel
for your frustration. We hate to lose even a single person
because of a stupid reason like this, but alas, it is a
chicken and egg problem. We are building a large and complex 
system, all at our own risk. We give it away, and support
the hell out of it, and yes, documentation lags (sometimes
too much).

However, there are a few questions that I would appreciate
you responding to before you disappear forever. Since you
saw the promise of Zope, perhaps you could spare a few last
minutes to help us understand some of the problems. I'll key 
most of my questions off your next question (remember, I
deleted an awful lot in between...).

> People!  Write some getting-started documentation!  Write
> an FAQ file!

Did you find the FAQ at http://zdp.zope.org ? If not, why
not? Was the ZDP effort too hidden?

You were specifically interested in External Methods, and in 
Z SQL Methods. Do you feel that this should be covered in
"getting-started documentation"? Can't 99% of Zope users
safely ignore the concept of External Methods?

Online on Zope.org, is the following:

"To use an External Method, you need to place your Python
source code file in the 'Extensions' directory in of your
Zope directory (you may need to create this directory), or
in an Extensions directory inside a Product directory,
e.g. lib/python/Products/MyProduct/Extensions."

You complained that you didn't know what directory the
"Extensions" directory should be created in. You got your
answer by asking the list. Was the documentation so far off
that you couldn't have suggested (via the Collector, ZDP, an 
email to info@digicool.com, support@digicool.com, etc.),
that this simple additional one-liner be added to the
documentation?

(Whoops, I see some grammatical errors in our online docs
too...)

> And for God's sake, don't write a patronizing letter about
> "Does Tera have money to spend?" to a person who's trying
> to evaluate whether something is worth spending money
> on...

You are correct. That's not the correct answer for your
problem. However, do you begrudge us the opportunity to stay 
in business at least long enough to get the docs right? I
hope not. Most of the answers relating to "Pay Digital to do
it" relate to people who are looking for additional features 
in Zope. Since Zope is pretty powerful already, and we
constantly add new stuff to the free base anyway, individual 
desires can and should be supplemented by paying customers
(at least IMHO).

Today, it's Monday. As recently as Friday, you wrote:

> I'll be delighted to help make documentation improvements,
> because if it is this great, it deserves to be useable by
> everybody.  Frankly, the documentation as it stands is
> great marketing material, but maddening if you want to
> insert and update data in a database, or indeed add/update
> data at all.

I guess you thought better of helping the community (and
yourself) out over the weekend. Too bad. Someone with your
qualities:

"I'm experienced, quick-witted, hard-working, dogged and
persistent."

could have added a laser-like focus to the sections that
most need updating.

(giving-up-wistfully-and-will-check-back-regularly)-ly yours,

I hope so. And again, if you can take a few more minutes to
answer some of the above questions, I know that I will
personally be grateful to you, and I suspect so will the
rest of Digital Creations.

Thanks again for taking a look at Zope.