[Zope] Giving up in frustration

[LD Landis]

Hello,

  I have been "out of the loop" since 1.9 (got buried by Y2K just before
  1.10)...

  I think that the Zope cauldron is something like the "frog in a pot"
  thing... If a frog is put in a pan of cool water, and that pan is warmed
  slowly... the frog will be boiled to death... On the other hand, if a
  frog is set into a pan of boiling water, it will jump out of the pan
  saving its life...

  I can say, without a doubt, that at this moment... Zope 2.0.0 is much
  nicer (from what I've read in CHANGES.txt), but... dang!  I'm going to
  just have the mindset that "Start over"... This is not completely due
  to the changes from 1.9... It is mostly (IMO) due to the fact that I was
  a mere neophyte when I got distracted... the "Zope Zen" hadn't flashed
  more than once or twice for me...  I could work some of the controls, but
  was frequently unable to "do what I wanted" cuz I didn't know the
  "incantation"...

  Having the source is also a mixed bag...  Right now... I'm sorry, but I
  don't have time to do that... I'd dearly love to do that, but I can only
  pull (average) 1.5 all-nighter's a week... that's the only way I can fit
  it in...

  Also, I've discovered that some releases of some distributions (e.g. the
  latest Caldera), are Python 1.5.2 friendly (except I haven't located how
  to enable 'crypt', and just discovered this morning that threads are also
  no there)... It is not Zope friendly... (gets ImportError: No module
  named thread)... I've got work to do... and can't take the time to figure
  this out right now...  The other guy I'm working with, didn't have the
  time to even try building Zope (also using Caldera)... but went straight
  for the binary release...  (Even less likely to "read the source, Luke").

  Also, if I recall... the Jedi's had to train pretty hard as I recall the
  story...   I offer these priorities (my order, not DC order):

   1. Knowing how to use Zope effectively is the most important...
      "Getting there... I know that I'm in trouble..."  I need to go get all
      of the current docs (haven't printed any since 1.9 days... course I
      hope to find ---hint-hint--- some equivalent of a "changes" doc so
      that I'll not waste any time reading stuff I already have... only to
      find out that "Oh... that's old"... Maybe the "ZODB3 thoughts"
      papers of Jim's have become "here's what ZODB3 is"... (hope hope)

   2-98 other stuff

  99. Knowing the source exists and is available is the most important...
      Being able to build from the source is comforting to me... I very
      much prefer it... HOWEVER... I need to get work done... and so to
      accomodate #1... I'll use a platform-specific binary release.  (Now,
      I refuse to use Microsoft anything... but from what I've read in the
      Zope list... it seems to me that just about anyone using Microsoft
      based systems is spending mega-bucks for tools, or relying totally on
      the binary releases)...  So, in short... If I'm going to get work
      done... for now (Caldera wise), I'm going to rely on a binary
      release. What this means is I have very little motivation to "read
      the source, Luke", cuz... well, just say I wanted to "slip in" a
      print statement or two... I'm not going to do it... I didn't build
      it, so I'm not sure that I won't break it, and I don't want to reload
      it (am not allowed to due to time constraints, etc).

  100-(x-1) more stuff

   x. Having the time to understand the source code that I am able build
      and use is one thing I am really looking forward to... after I
      "retire".  Not sure I'll do it then either... Heck... I want to be
      fluent in things like Apache, sendmail, DNS, object brokers, etc, etc
      etc too.. Not sure what I want to completely grok at the source code
      level... Too many interesting paths...

  On a similar thing... I really enjoyed "Learning Python"... I think that
  having a similar "Learning Zope" would be wonderful!  I'd buy it...
  Also, I think that Learning Python is a helpful addition (I have to try
  to train people too) as it is much less to "get" than were the other,
  more exhaustive/ing tomes... Not to mention that both IPWP and PLP are
  now significantly dated... Even Learning Python had some "datedness" to
  it, and it is a new book (1.5.2 was not yet final... so not fully
  reflected)...

Andrew M. Kuchling wrote:
> 
> Martijn Faassen writes:
> >Just organize the documentation effort better. Our biggest need, I think, is
> >an organization of the documentation infrastructure. Someone needs to be get
> >pretty radical there -- ripping apart everything and putting it all together
> >again in a better way. I'll definitely be around to give my help.
> 
>                                             Reading the source code
> may not always help; some portions of it are filled with impressively
> cutting-edge Python technique; even Guido would have to go slowly.
> 
> -- 
> A.M. Kuchling			http://starship.python.net/crew/amk/
> Think until it hurts.
>     -- Roy Thomson

--
Cheers,
	--ldl
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LD Landis ldl@HealthPartners.Com N0YRQ    Voice 612/883-5511 Fax 612/883-6363
HealthPartners, 8100 34th Avenue So, PO Box 1309, Minneapolis, MN  55440-1309
Shape your life not from your memories, but from your hopes.       (Borrowed)
Still programming for the day-job... haven't yet gotten that Microsoft PR job
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