[Zope] zope vs. siteserver from ms.siteserver newsgroup

[Bill Anderson]

Chris McDonough wrote:
> 
> Here's an exchange I had with a guy in the MS Site Server general Usenet
> Newsgroup... can anyone find exception with his or my arguments?
> Additionally, he doubts the ability of Zope to handle large sites (near the
> end of the message).  Any clarifications are appreciated....

...

> >
> > First Part:
> > App Development:
> > You are not really good with statements like "Additionally, the process
> > of "decoding" some of Microsoft's Site Server-related error messages is
> > tedious (e.g. "Server Object error ASP 0177:800401f3 Server.CreateObject
> > failed, line 37, invalid class string")." - Sorry, THIS error message
> > explains itself quite well.
> 
> Maybe you can tell me what it means in the context of the failure... it
> happens in the cmsample application that comes with Site Server.

I definitely prefer tracebacks to this.

> 
> >
> > "When you do this, you're basically extending the Zope environment by
> > creating your own object types without having to know a high-level
> > programming language (ala C++/Visual Basic COM object development)." -
> > well, just you do it in a slow interpredet language, where C++ COM
> > Objects will be speedy!
> 
> Hmmm.  I don't know C++.  This was my point.  With Zope, I don't have to
> know C++ or even VB to develop object components.  I just need to know how
> to point and click, plus I need to know a little bit of DTML (Document
> Template Markup Language).

Definitely. As noted,if you need blinding speed, you can write
extensions in C, C++, (Objective C?) ....  Additionally, it is worth
noting that there is nothing inherently 'speedy' about C++ COM.

> 
> >
> > "The power of this model is formidable.  For example, I developed a
> > "news item" object in 22 minutes which allows my users to add "news
> > items" to their department for perusal by other department members." -
> > nive. What about adding 100.000 news items. What is the performance
> > then? This is unrealistic? OK, lets make an interface for a news server.
> > 1 million messages a day. Youre dead.
> 
> Agreed.  There isn't enough data.  Does anyone in here run a Site Server
> based site that handles this kind of traffic?  It'd be interesting to see
> what sort of hardware is required...

22 minutes? I did with Zope it in 7 ;-)
A direct web interface to news is not a good test of a webserver, since
you are only adding data to the database, and that can be done without
the webserver.  Simply map the messages into an SQL database, say Oracle
for example, running on a seperate machine, use the DB-DA for your
chosen SQL server, and now your webserver is bored.


It is in client requests that you need to be concerned with. Here IIS
incurrs two penalties, one is IIS itsself, the other is the OS it is
running on.

> 
> >
> > I really do not want to critisize you - it is only, that your statements
> > are NOT backed up. I was also looking at ZOPE, and in my eyes - nice
> > try. I still have to see a website working with it. A real site, say 10
> > million pages a day, all dynamic. Make a setup of Zope in a cluster with
> > shared session. It can be done in site server.
> 
> I will forward your message to the Zope list to see if anyone can attest to
> running such a site....
> 
> Many, many thanks for all your comments!!
> 


Show me a site running _all_dynamic_ pages on SiteServer that handles
over 115 requests per second. 

It is nice to play what-if, but unless one has an example of another
site doing that many requests on his/her side of the aisle, the request
is meaningless. I don't mean to be rude, but I know of no 10Mill/day
(115.74/sec) dynamic page displays server running on a *single* MS's
SiteServer.

-- 
"They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the
Wright brothers.  But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." -- Carl
Sagan