[Zope] Looking for Zope vs. Others at-a-glance comparison

[Bill Anderson]

Jason Cunliffe wrote:
> 
> Ron
> 
> yes +thanks for paying keen attention here..
> 
> > > What Manila has done is to provide some reasonable default templates for
> > > getting useful site development work done 'out of the box' - they have
> > > provided a structure template, and well defined access to changing the
> > > obvious things people want to change.
> >
> > I see.  Having higher level drop-in Web sites, IMO, is a job for add-on
> Zope
> > products that could be created by DC or the community to meet various
> needs
> > (as in Squishdot like projects).  As the Zope community grows, I have no
> > doubt that more add-on products for "Web sites in a can" will pop up.
> 
> Exactly.
> My concern is to get the right kind of discussion going because it is going
> to need some differnt kinds of minds to work together.
> 
> > I can only guess that most Zope users are either not designers or are so
> > filled with awe over its power that they forget to put effort into beauty.
> > :-)  I think Zope lends itself more to the programmer and content provider
> > types, and leaves the designer with nothing special to desire.  I don't
> say
> > that in a bad way, but Zope isn't a design tool, so designers have no
> > special interest in learning to use it.  As Zope makes its way into more
> > businesses with design teams, pretty design will make its way into more
> Zope
> > sites.
> 
> Problem is am not sure Zopie will make its way into more businesses wiht
> design teams if it is such a pain in the $# to get sites sketched out.
> 
> A really valuable  feature which Zope could offer is Site-Sketching
> You do the back of napkin whiteboard 'design' of the main site architecture
> hierharchy functioning. Now you need to map it out in 'dummy' mode so
> everyone can get to work playing with it and working on the bits they are
> all best at.
> You know you are going to make changes and so you want to benfit from object
> abstraction from the get go
> You know in house team and design [visual + code] will force changes not to
> mention clients..
> Then start throwing database at it - look and feel vs. satabase search
> menchaisms etc. This can be expensive time consumign stuff.. things people
> need to apply samrt reusable components to.. but which also allow them to
> get down very fingraoned and adjust = zope
> I think there is a big demand for this kind of up and running toolset.
> 
> A zope folder full images or navigation widgets or search form elements are
> the type of things yu want to do a single copy paste or import on.
> 
> I am a designer who has a special interest in learning to use.
> I do not see many other tools with this potential, but in its present state
> and my present programming skills, I am still a little short of being able
> to take Zope where I see it can go on my own. I hope this changes soon..
> 
> > My understanding is that DC has been putting so much of their resources
> into
> > the Zope core, much needed documentation, and probably their consulting
> > business, that their own Web site has been left with a lower priority.  I
> > don't fault them for that.  I think they've done a great job at
> > prioritizing.
> 
> Granted.
> The price is right and there is some hairy stuff under the hood.
> I just hope DC can step back a bit more from time to time to see where they
> fit in from other perspectives also.
> I realize their income comes from consulting.
> They could apply their expertise [or others] to package off useful stuff for
> a reasonable price.
> Zope products coudl be very cost efefctive all around - those with teh time
> and skills can develope their own.
> Perhaos you are right adn it is still a little early yet.. maybe next year..
> 
> > > And if you select yes you will get 'index_html' and 'acl_users'
> included..
> > > THIS is the entry point I am talking about
> > > The 'Add a Folder' page needs to offer more so that it can default to
> the
> > > immediate bones of a useful site, methods and links. The irony to
> 
> > I think the "bones of a useful site" belong in a different object than a
> > Folder, though I agree that specialized products/objects for canned sites
> > would be a nice addition to the Zope products list, whether from DC or the
> > community.
> 
> Yes.  How about :
> - 'Add Bones object'

What is a 'Bones' Object??

> - 'Add Navigation Object'
http://www.zope.org/Products/navigational

> - Add Styles object'

ZStylesheet

> - 'Add Report Object'

ListMate,MetaPublisher,Add Search Interface

> - 'Add WebSite Object'

Such as Squishdot, ZopePTK ...



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