[Zope] is DTML a www standard?

[Luciano Ramalho]

Alan Capesius wrote:
> I was referred to Zope by a colleague who was learning Python. But, the
> majority (99.9%) of my Zope work is done in DTML. I have NO external methods
> on my site and no desire to spend time learning Python syntax. 

But you should try PythonScripts. The use of PythonScripts will greatly
simplify your DTML coding efforts. And Python's syntax is much easier to
learn and read than DTML.

> A friendlier and more
> complete DTML tag structure would accellerate Zope aceptance by those that
> do not come from a Python background. 

If what you want is more DTML tags to code your logic, then I couldn't
disagree more. Whenever I pitch Zope, I use the fact that DTML has very
few tags as a strong selling point. DTML could be even simpler, in my
opinion, to really encourage separation between logic and presentation.

> 1) Create an expand DTML tag library offering functions common to most
> langauges and comparable to competitive systems. Remove the reliance on
> python syntax with basic functions like strlen() and substring()

I much prefer my_string[:3], my_string[2:], my_string[2:5] than having
to remember the names and parameters of three diferent functions. On the
other hand, maybe what you call Python syntax is the need to invoke
simple functions prefixed with "_.". I also hate that, but there is no
easy solution because of namespace conflicts (you can call a folder
"len").

> 2) Simplify the SQL interface of DTML methods by creating a new method type
> that integrates ZSQL Method and a DTML Method into a single entity for doing
> simple single query-and-report operations.

Again, you really seem to like mixing logic with presentation (SQL and
HTML). This can only be good if everyone responsible for maintaining a
site is knows and likes both SQL and HTML. I find this combination a
rare. Good DBAs usually hate HTML, and good desginers have no desire to
learn SQL. For large sites, maintained by teams of specialized
professionals, separating logic from presentation is essential. ZPT is a
step in the right direction, although I think the first version of ZPT
suffers from perlitis (too many ways of doing the same thing, making it
hard to know how to use the notation properly).

> 4) Redesign the Zope.org site to focus on how to use Zope to get things
> done. The current focus (on the home page) is a management overview of the
> Zope Concept that offers little real application content. 

I agree.

> 5) Expand the focus to embrace the Win32 market. 

I also agree. And a new market which may represent a great oportunity is
the Mac OS X market, not so much because of its size, but because of the
demographics of Mac users. Zope.org should include Mac OS X in the list
of supported distributions, with binaries ready for download.

> 6) Personal pet peeve - Improve handling of whitespace in DTML docs to
> reduce page sizes. Basic starting point: suppress all blank areas output
> between rendered DTML tags when no content is present.

Great idea.

[]s
Luciano