[Zope] Re: Java re-invents DTML :-)

[Michael Lewis]

On Tue, 2003-02-18 at 14:41, sean.upton@uniontrib.com wrote:
> DTML just doesn't scale
> to non-techies or content people who are talented at HTML, but not
> 'programming.' 
> 
> Sean
> 

Being exactly what you are referring to, ie: someone who knows html, but
not programming, I have to disagree.  I tried Zope initially BECAUSE of
it's tag based scripting language.  I found it very easy to learn, and
granted, I have encountered some syntax issues that were a problem for a
while, but searching on zope.org and asking for direction from list
members, everything has worked out just fine.  I constructed 26 virtual
sites with Zope and DTML.  I have also looked at ZPT and found it rather
confusing.  I guess maybe it's just the way I'm wired or how I process
information, in any case, since we're not all the same, I feel that
continuing to offer both solutions would be the most appropriate course.

I have never experienced any thing weird in using DTML except for using
a dtml-in inside sendmail.  Thanks to Dylan, that was easily fixed in a
couple of minutes.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Terry Hancock [mailto:hancock@anansispaceworks.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 7:07 PM
> To: zope@zope.org
> Subject: Re: [Zope] Re: Java re-invents DTML :-)
> 
> 
> On Monday 17 February 2003 09:01 am, Chris Withers wrote:
> > Kevin Carlson wrote:
> > > Come on folks.  There's nothing wrong with supporting two templating 
> > > languages.  Quite honestly, dtml is much easier to learn for most and 
> > > has it's place in application development
> 
> DTML has worked pretty much flawlessly for me. I have *NEVER* encountered
> any 
> of the bugaboos about obfuscation or excessive code in it that have been 
> claimed to be its faults. I use it in an admittedly complex presentation 
> layer, and it provides excellent support for everything I need to do there. 
> Python does the heavy lifting just fine, and I see no reason to change this 
> part of my design.
> 
> > ...not unless some of its major current flaws are corrected. I think this 
> is 
> > possible but I don't see the point of having two templating languages for 
> one 
> > app server especially as we're now getting to the stage where you need to 
> know 
> > _both_ before you can do anything useful with Zope :-(
> 
> Okay, I'm game, let's give ZPT the boot. It's a much more specialized 
> language (HTML documents *only*), looks *really* obfuscated. Stuffs all its 
> code into HTML attributes which is great for hiding the code away, but awful
> 
> if you want to see the document structure.  DTML and Python work fine 
> together, and are capable of handling the whole range of tasks I need. 
> ZPT+Python cannot. 
> 
> So ZPT is neither necessary nor sufficient. 
> 
> Terry
> 
> --
> Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
> Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com
> 
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-- 
Michael Lewis <michael@nichestaffing.com>
NicheStaffing.com