[Zope] Zope is a POS.

[Andreas Jung]

--On Mittwoch, 13. Oktober 2004 9:15 Uhr -0700 Jason Leach 
<jason.leach at gmail.com> wrote:

> Are any of these significant detriments with Zope addressed in 2.7 or
> later?
>
> 0. No standard DB support.
> I don't think ZPoPyDa has been updated since 2001.  I'm sure that
> fills new developers with lots of confidence.  Perhaps it works fine,
> but it's not being improved.  Perhaps other DB interfaces are better.
> But then again ZSQL Methods are still ancient and in DTML.


There are enough DB adapters available for nearly every DB available.
DAs are not shipped with the Zope core. If you need a particular DA
you can easily download and install it. What is your problem with ZSQL
methods? They are known to work fine (as instance in the ZODb or on
the filesystem). Do you know a better framework for specifying
SQl queries in a generic way?



>
> 1. Build in user management.
> This is stupid.  The user management is good for companies of 10
> people or so but what good is that to web application or ecomm site?
> You going to hand add users?  The only solid product for this is
> LDAPUserFolder, the rest should still be in beta.

Zope is a framework and application and not an out-of-the-box
application. Look at the user management as it is written in Plone
*on top* of Zope.


> 2. Debugging.
> This is worse.  It is so complicated to debug Products or Zope crap I
> can't believe it.  This is relative to PHP or JSP or ASP; all I have
> worked with.

Debugging PHP, JSP or ASP can be a pain in the ass as well.

>
> 3. Python
> Keeping python up to date to use products.  Pain in the ass.

What do you want to tell us with this unqualified sentence?

>
> 4. DTML/ZPT
> Seems 90% of Products are in DTML yet ZPT seems like the obvious thing
> to use. Fine, except when you need to tweak a product and then have to
> learn DTML. PHP is PHP same  for the most part with ASP (all VB if you
> like) or JSP (all java if you like).

You don't know what you are talking about. ZPT is used over DTMl over the 
last
years. Most projects are using ZPT nowadays.  DTML is still there for 
backward
compatibility and because you can before tasks that can not be done in ZPT.
But using ZPT is recommended way. If you are happy with PHP then use PHP.
No one forces you to use Zope. If Zope overstrains your brain then use PHP.
PHP is a framework that mixes logic and presentation. Zope is a framework
that provides a larger functionality than PHP does.


>
> Honestly. If I new know what I do about zope I would not recommend it
> for commercial development.  Go with a product that lots of people are
> using, this way you are ensured that components will be well supported
> and improved over time. Not dropped because the author has moved on.

That's your personal opinion. There are *enough* examples of companies
running Zope in company-critical environments.

Not knowing what 'POS' means (assuming it is something rude) I recommend  to
take some drugs to relax before posting next time.

Andreas