[Zope] Zope is a POS.

[Garito]

Andreas Jung wrote:

>
>
> --On Mittwoch, 13. Oktober 2004 9:15 Uhr -0700 Jason Leach 
> <jason.leach at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Are any of these significant detriments with Zope addressed in 2.7 or
>> later?
>>
>> 0. No standard DB support.
>> I don't think ZPoPyDa has been updated since 2001.  I'm sure that
>> fills new developers with lots of confidence.  Perhaps it works fine,
>> but it's not being improved.  Perhaps other DB interfaces are better.
>> But then again ZSQL Methods are still ancient and in DTML.
>
>
>
> There are enough DB adapters available for nearly every DB available.
> DAs are not shipped with the Zope core. If you need a particular DA
> you can easily download and install it. What is your problem with ZSQL
> methods? They are known to work fine (as instance in the ZODb or on
> the filesystem). Do you know a better framework for specifying
> SQl queries in a generic way?
>
>
This is my opinion and only my opinion: I think Zope has a DB (object 
oriented one). For that, I think that DB connectors are for backward 
compatibility with your ancien software but I would like to migrate data

>
>>
>> 1. Build in user management.
>> This is stupid.  The user management is good for companies of 10
>> people or so but what good is that to web application or ecomm site?
>> You going to hand add users?  The only solid product for this is
>> LDAPUserFolder, the rest should still be in beta.
>
>
> Zope is a framework and application and not an out-of-the-box
> application. Look at the user management as it is written in Plone
> *on top* of Zope.
>
In these point ZMI could be better but Z3X is in beta 2?

>
>> 2. Debugging.
>> This is worse.  It is so complicated to debug Products or Zope crap I
>> can't believe it.  This is relative to PHP or JSP or ASP; all I have
>> worked with.
>
>
> Debugging PHP, JSP or ASP can be a pain in the ass as well.

Absolutely agree with the 2 opinions but, Andreas, sorry but complacency 
is not very good. Zope needs moooore work here, but we are patience with 
open source, so, no problem

>
>>
>> 3. Python
>> Keeping python up to date to use products.  Pain in the ass.
>
> What do you want to tell us with this unqualified sentence?
>
>>
>> 4. DTML/ZPT
>> Seems 90% of Products are in DTML yet ZPT seems like the obvious thing
>> to use. Fine, except when you need to tweak a product and then have to
>> learn DTML. PHP is PHP same  for the most part with ASP (all VB if you
>> like) or JSP (all java if you like).
>
>
> You don't know what you are talking about. ZPT is used over DTMl over 
> the last
> years. Most projects are using ZPT nowadays.  DTML is still there for 
> backward
> compatibility and because you can before tasks that can not be done in 
> ZPT.
> But using ZPT is recommended way. If you are happy with PHP then use PHP.
> No one forces you to use Zope. If Zope overstrains your brain then use 
> PHP.
> PHP is a framework that mixes logic and presentation. Zope is a framework
> that provides a larger functionality than PHP does.
>
>
>>
>> Honestly. If I new know what I do about zope I would not recommend it
>> for commercial development.  Go with a product that lots of people are
>> using, this way you are ensured that components will be well supported
>> and improved over time. Not dropped because the author has moved on.
>
>
> That's your personal opinion. There are *enough* examples of companies
> running Zope in company-critical environments.
>
> Not knowing what 'POS' means (assuming it is something rude) I 
> recommend  to
> take some drugs to relax before posting next time.

YESSS, drugs, lots of drugs, jejejeje ;)

>
> Andreas
> _______________________________________________
> Zope maillist  -  Zope at zope.org
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
> **   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
> (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )