[Zope] Zope is a POS.

[Tino Wildenhain]

Am Mi, den 13.10.2004 schrieb Jason Leach um 18:15:
> Are any of these significant detriments with Zope addressed in 2.7 or later?
> 
> 0. No standard DB support.
> I don't think ZPoPyDa has been updated since 2001.  I'm sure that
> fills new developers with lots of confidence.  Perhaps it works fine,
> but it's not being improved.  Perhaps other DB interfaces are better. 
> But then again ZSQL Methods are still ancient and in DTML.

there are DAs for many relational databases.

> 1. Build in user management.
> This is stupid.  The user management is good for companies of 10
> people or so but what good is that to web application or ecomm site? 
> You going to hand add users?  The only solid product for this is
> LDAPUserFolder, the rest should still be in beta.

Aha. And with LDAP you enter users with your foot? :-)
There are a number of userfolders where you can
basically use whatever you want as source. 
Also watch out for the upcoming PluggabeAuthSource
which will eventually be standard zope gear.

> 2. Debugging.  
> This is worse.  It is so complicated to debug Products or Zope crap I
> can't believe it.  This is relative to PHP or JSP or ASP; all I have
> worked with.

No its not. You have different levels of debugging
and usually you dont have to debug system internals.

Can you with PHP, JSP, ASP interactively work in
the running server? With Zope you can.

(ZEO setup and zopectl debug)

> 3. Python
> Keeping python up to date to use products.  Pain in the ass.

apt-get update; apt-get install. No pain.

> 4. DTML/ZPT
> Seems 90% of Products are in DTML yet ZPT seems like the obvious thing
> to use. Fine, except when you need to tweak a product and then have to
> learn DTML. PHP is PHP same  for the most part with ASP (all VB if you
> like) or JSP (all java if you like).

One could argue PHP keeps sucking all the time where with Zope
you have python scripts and ZPT to get away from DTML :-)

> Honestly. If I new know what I do about zope I would not recommend it
> for commercial development.  Go with a product that lots of people are
> using, this way you are ensured that components will be well supported
> and improved over time. Not dropped because the author has moved on.

Feel free to use whatever you feel comfortable with. There are many
users who know PHP, ASP, JSP and Zope and use Zope.
The point is - you are comparing apples with other fruits.
Zope is much more then a bouch of scripts and macros.

Regards
Tino