[Zope] Java vs Zope

[Asad Habib]

>From my experience, Java development has been a lot faster when 
applications have middle to high level complexity. Since Java is 
inherently object-oriented, reusability is much easier to achieve then 
when using Zope. Also, Java has mature development and debugging 
environments and well organized API's. Zope is seriously lacking in this 
regard.

Zope is good for building simple interfaces but any application that does 
data processing and requires session management should be left for Java. 
The closest comparison to Zope that I can think of is PHP.

Again, this is just my opinion based on my own experiences.

- Asad


On Tue, 3 Jan 2006, Jonathan Cyr wrote:

> I always found the bytecode aspect of Java annoying... having to compile 
> without the advantages in speed of a compiled language.
>
> Interesting, though, I host a WebSphere 6.0 app in Java... The Websphere 
> install is littered with python files, for install/setup purposes...   hmm
>
> two cents,
>
> -Jon
>
> David Johnson wrote:
>> Andreas and others, 
>> Thanks for your response.  I think my confusion lies in the idea that not
>> everyone uses Java (though they may talk about it). I do not see everyone
>> using Java.  In fact I see very few large or successful companies using it.
>> Even Sun and IBM develop their core components in C/C++.  GNU, Linux, MySQL
>> ... all C/C++.  Ditto Oracle.  In my market, we've been able to easily
>> outpace and perform competitors going the J2EE route, and for a lot less
>> money.
>> 
>> In regards to web development, the list of technologies being implemented 
>> is
>> overwhelming.  It took extensive research to find and settle down to Zope. 
>> In my research, I found it took 57 complex files to develop a simple and
>> ugly J2EE application to display a list of cars from a database (various
>> Ant, xml, jar, war and other files).  In Zope this can be done in 2 
>> objects,
>> and it integrates nicely with apps like Dreamweaver, so it looks and feels
>> nice.
>> 
>> We often find the need to integrate with other products and when we do,
>> either the product's manufacturer a) is interested in market share, or b)
>> they avoid change. 
>> For companies who are into market share they often use a greatest common
>> denominator technology such as C, Perl, or HTTP.  Java does not play nicely
>> here.
>> 
>> Companies who avoid change usually do so because they produce large-scale 
>> or
>> small market systems, and change is too expensive and hard.  In this case
>> Java, again, does not play nicely.
>> 
>> In Java it seems that not only do you have to figure how to interface with
>> others, you have to figure out how to do it in Java as well (which is not
>> trivial).  Zope and Python seem better at translating thoughts into code,
>> and doing so with the right balance of object orientation, and scalability.
>> 
>> Zope provides a solid framework for development and scalability, while
>> providing mechanisms to include and deploy very custom and specific 
>> features
>> in a standardized way.
>> 
>> 
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>> From: Andreas Jung [mailto:lists at andreas-jung.com] Sent: Sunday, January 
>> 01, 2006 4:03 PM
>> To: David Johnson; zope at zope.org
>> Subject: Re: [Zope] Java vs Zope
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --On 1. Januar 2006 14:04:16 -0600 David Johnson <djohnson at jsatech.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> Good afternoon.  I am new to Zope and I am excited about its
>>> possibilities. We are an ASP and plan to use Zope to improve our
>>> development process. I see that many people use J2EE based environments.
>>> Does anyone
>>> understand why?  Why would anyone use Java?
>>> 
>> 
>> Because everyone uses Java! When you work in an environment were Java is 
>> already used then you usually use Java instead of Python. And there are 
>> environments where Python is possibly the better solution. You just need to 
>> compare the efforts to integrate an existing environment with your 
>> solution...then you choose your tools.
>> 
>> -aj
>> 
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>
> -- 
> Jonathan Cyr
> http://www.cyr.info
> http://www.weddingweblog.com
> cyrj at cyr.info
>
>