[Zope] Re: newbie -- creating a Product

[Jonathan]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jens Vagelpohl" <jens at dataflake.org>
To: "zope user list" <zope at zope.org>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Zope] Re: newbie -- creating a Product


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> On 6 Nov 2006, at 17:59, Max M wrote:
>
>> Jens Vagelpohl skrev:
>>
>>>> If your are using Zope 2 and is a newbie, do yourself the favour  of 
>>>> starting with Zope 3.
>>>>
>>>> If you want to work in zope 2 you should use Plone as a base, and 
>>>> create  products with Archgen XML (AGX)
>>>>
>>>> There are no advantages in using plain Zope 2 anymore.
>>> I'm sorry, that's just complete BS.
>>
>>
>> No it isn't!
>>
>> Mind what I said (or tried to say). If you are a *new developer*,  with a 
>> *new project*, you are far better of starting with Zope 3  than with Zope 
>> 2.
>
> That's questionable. Answers like this only add to a certain FUD  factor 
> out there about Zope2 being thrown out shortly.
>
>
>> If you need features that are in Zope 2 but not in Zope 3, you are 
>> better of using a framework like Plone.
>
> Hell no. Trying to throw a complete newbie not just into developing  with 
> Zope, but developing with Plone on top of Zope is, IMHO, insane.  Not only 
> do you need to learn Zope, you also need to learn the  various Plone 
> programming paradigms. That's just bad advice, unless  someone truly wants 
> those portal-like functionalities in Plone. Plone  is a screwdriver, and 
> you're advising people to pound a nail into the  wall with a screwdriver.
>
>
>> I have done Zope for +6 years, and I would not dream of starting up  a 
>> project from scratch in Zope 2 anymore.
>>
>> I did not say that Zope 2 was useless. I still spend most of my  time 
>> working on Plone based projects.
>
> This is a case of professional "blinders". You've been working with a 
> specific combination for years so these things come easy to you. The 
> problem is you don't seem to see that there is healthy life outside  of 
> Plone. Or outside of Zope 3, for that matter.

+1+1+1+1...   :-)

P.S.  if you want a complete newbie NOT to use zope, throw them into the 
deep end with Zope 3 (compared to Zope 2 there is not a lot of 
documentation, examples, and expertise available to help newbies; not to 
mention the fact that Zope 3 is still rapidly evolving).


Jonathan