maybe i'm very conservative on these matters, but i still believe very much in "do one thing well". if you're trying to do everything under the sun you'll end up doing a lot - but each implementation will end up being mediocre at best and will lack flexibility for power users. you might meet your goal (integration, ease of use for beginners) but you might lose the experienced users along the way. looking at the big picture, who is the audience asking for e.g. LDAP integration? from my continuing work on the LDAPUserFolder (which, by the way, is also built on a "do one thing, and do it well" philosophy) i can attest to the fact that the majority seems to be users with existing LDAP infrastructures (-> meaning the experienced users who need maximum flexibility). that audience most likely will not be interested in some limited LDAP server capability in zope itself. like i said, could just be me being very conservative in these matters. jens On Sunday, Dec 8, 2002, at 11:37 US/Eastern, Eron Lloyd wrote:
I think this is probably my biggest concern with Zope...what does it want to be? With Twisted, it's simple--it wants to become as much as possible, as integrated as possible, as soon as possible. The truth is, when developing network applications, you *will* usually need several different disparate systems, like HTTP, IMAP, and LDAP. This is a big reason why platforms like MS Exchange are so popular. Also, as in projects like KDE, users benefit from the *tight* integration of it's applications. When building a Web community, for example, it would be much easier to configure and develop when the Web, email, and messaging servers are all based on the same platform. Compared to using an Apache, Courier, Jabber combo, all having different needs, administration, configuration, and communication facilities. So I guess this is why the conversation keeps coming back up...users *want* that level of integration. Zope already has one foot in the door in this respect. So to me, it's never a matter of wheel re-invention, but a matter of integration and need. The old UNIX adage, "do one thing well" is pretty much a thing of the past.
Cheers,
Eron
On Sunday 08 December 2002 11:06 am, Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
dirk hits it on the head.
why reinvent the wheel? it is not that hard to install and run OpenLDAP and even create your own custom schemata. and then there are products that enable you to maintain the data in LDAP from within zope itself.
what's next, a gopher server for zope? ;)
jens
P.S.: i agree that it would be a somewhat cool thing. but is the undoubtedly large effort worth it? you'll work a lot and never match the capabilities of a real LDAP server.
On Sunday, Dec 8, 2002, at 10:10 US/Eastern, Dirk Datzert wrote:
Stephan Richter schrieb:
On Sunday 08 December 2002 09:43, Luca Olivetti wrote:
Dirk Datzert wrote:
Hi Luis,
Zope is an application server, where you can run your own LDAP-administration software.
But the LDAP-Server is a standalone server which is not zope !
You can bind users in zope against users in LDAP (with LDAPUserFolder) but this did not mean that zope is a LDAP-Server.
Yes, but imagine the opposite: that you have a contacts database in zope and want it to be useable by, say, mozilla or any other mail client that can query ldap servers for its address book.
Well, start an effort to write an LDAP server on top of Zope. LDAP is a complex protocol; I would be glad to see a Zope-based server. There is an LDAP server module for Twisted you might want to check out for a start.
I would suggest: put the contacts database on a real LDAP-Server (e.g. openldap - full functional and very well working LDAP-server)
Write on top of Zope your management tool for that contacts database. There are some products to do this: LDAPUserFolder + LDAPDirectoryManager
-> use the right tool for the right issue, don't reinvent the wheel !
Regards, Dirk
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