A reason to upgrade our 2.7.5!!! I have been on this list for over 7 years and have never heard of this company. I wonder how many other cool Zope2 things are being done quietly in the shadows. Bring your cool stuff into the light for others to enjoy...and pay for if needed. I for one have no problem buying useful tools or products for Zope. Thanks for the tip Chris. Allen Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:

Thats pretty awesome. It's "zamazing" to me that Zope 2 is not a de facto platform for "Web 2.0" projects. I think it has some major benefits over Rails and maybe even Django but there seems to be no interest in it from that community. This is a great start.

Jejeje, good job! Is like I want for Zope Smart Manager (the version I have in my computer has edition and complete the features you have in your project) but I prefer the tree view What a pity that our projects don't join but it's ok! Congratulations! 2008/4/16, Philip Kilner <phil@xfr.co.uk>:

Hi Tom,

Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:

...

Thats pretty awesome. It's "zamazing" to me that Zope 2 is not a de facto platform for "Web 2.0" projects. I think it has some major benefits over Rails and maybe even Django but there seems to be no interest in it from that community. This is a great start.

I agree that it's a great platform for Web 2.0 projects - I'm a happy RDBMS developer, using Zope as an application server against Postgres dbs.

I find that Formulator, ZPTs and simple scripts on the server side and JQuery on the client side (specifically, the JQuery Taconite implementation [1] with XML ZPTs) work wonderfully together.

My interest is pretty narrow, in the sense that I'm all about RDBMSs, tabular data, and form-driven data entry - the less guff between me the and the RDBMS, the happier I am. However, if I don't have much to say, it's only because TTW Zope development using these tools is so easy. If there is any interest in discussing this stuff, I am up for that.

Having said all that, I'm happy enough with the ZMI as it is, so "Zamasing" is only of academic interest to me.

FWIW, all these techniques can also be made to work seamlessly inside Plone without doing any actual Plone development, which can be handy (you really only need to work with Plone's CSS to make it look consistent) - a server side mash-up which avoids all the cross-site scripting stuff, if you like.

[1] http://www.malsup.com/jquery/taconite/

--

Regards,

PhilK

'work as if you lived in the early days of a better nation' - alasdair gray _______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

-- Mis Cosas http://blogs.sistes.net/Garito Zope Smart Manager http://blogs.sistes.net/Garito/670

Hi, Tim! I'm agree with you. I my case I use bluefish at gnome but I like TTW GUIs because I don't need to carry my computer to work around the world and, boy, the world is a very beautifull place to visit I understand that Zopers want a revision of the back-end with Zope3 but at this moment I don't understand so much the effort that suppose (it's only an opinion without wishing to open a discussion about that decision, I respect this decision) My way, by other side, is about a way to work properly or better with Zope2 because Zope2 is the better place at this moment and my skills to build my project And, in my opinion, zamazing is the an equivalent effort and thats good for the Zopers that think like my The version of ZSM, for example, that I have in my computer has edition but is not tested yet and then I would like to add a debugger (at least at the Yanged part) Do you imagine that you could work at every computer connected to the internet? I think that the people who use Zope is, in part, because is TTW, isn't it? Congratulations again 2008/4/16, Tim Nash <thedagdae@gmail.com>:

Phil, It is great to see more posts about how well zope works for "Web 2.0" projects. I have used extjs with zope and really like the combination. I'd like to learn more about your jquery /plone setup and how you make it work. Would it be a time consuming for you to create a generic product that demonstrates your setup? It would be helpful to have a common set of artifacts to discuss. Thanks, Tim ps. I can make available a generic product that demonstrates how I use extjs if there is interest. It is pretty simple...serve a little dtml doc which requests the gui cached in javascript. Gui makes ajax calls back to zope for the dynamic elements.

pps. nice work zamazing! python/dtml syntax highlighting in codepress? sweet. (but I am addicted to the mac version of Komodo)

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:01 AM, Philip Kilner <phil@xfr.co.uk> wrote:

...

Hi Tom,

Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:

...

Thats pretty awesome. It's "zamazing" to me that Zope 2 is not a de facto platform for "Web 2.0" projects. I think it has some major benefits over Rails and maybe even Django but there seems to be no interest in it from that community. This is a great start.

I agree that it's a great platform for Web 2.0 projects - I'm a happy RDBMS developer, using Zope as an application server against Postgres dbs.

I find that Formulator, ZPTs and simple scripts on the server side and JQuery on the client side (specifically, the JQuery Taconite implementation [1] with XML ZPTs) work wonderfully together.

My interest is pretty narrow, in the sense that I'm all about RDBMSs, tabular data, and form-driven data entry - the less guff between me the and the RDBMS, the happier I am. However, if I don't have much to say, it's only because TTW Zope development using these tools is so easy. If there is any interest in discussing this stuff, I am up for that.

Having said all that, I'm happy enough with the ZMI as it is, so "Zamasing" is only of academic interest to me.

FWIW, all these techniques can also be made to work seamlessly inside Plone without doing any actual Plone development, which can be handy (you really only need to work with Plone's CSS to make it look consistent) - a server side mash-up which avoids all the cross-site scripting stuff, if you like.

[1] http://www.malsup.com/jquery/taconite/

--

Regards,

PhilK

'work as if you lived in the early days of a better nation' - alasdair gray

_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

-- Mis Cosas http://blogs.sistes.net/Garito Zope Smart Manager http://blogs.sistes.net/Garito/670

@Garito, I hope you have another release of ZSM. I really appreciate new developer tools for zope like your ZSM and Zamasing. I am pretty confident that the zope 3 crowd will eventually put back TTW, simple ZMI etc. (but hopefully not too much acquisition....the great idea that almost ruins zope 2). Google is very close to making the business layer scalable, they have been studying salesforce.com for some time now. When they conquer that technical hurdle, huge ASP's will probably dominate computing (especially in China). Easily distributed and maintained web services like zope 2 may be one of the few remaining ways to compete with monster ASP's. The zope 3 crowd will come back around with an even better zope. @Phil, I think you will find the "product" learning curve isn't that steep at all. The famous z-shaped curve has more to do with the lack of up-to-date documentation than anything else. Products are the way to go. It is very much like wriitng 'Scripts Python'. I am going to put a simple 'boring' product on the zope.org site (if they let me) which will show how to use zope and extjs for anyone who is interested. Looking forward to your "proof of concept" -Tim On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 1:01 AM, Philip Kilner <phil@xfr.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Tim,

Tim Nash wrote:

...

It is great to see more posts about how well zope works for "Web 2.0" projects. I have used extjs with zope and really like the combination. I'd like to learn more about your jquery /plone setup and how you make it work. Would it be a time consuming for you to create a generic product that demonstrates your setup? It would be helpful to have a common set of artifacts to discuss.

Am happy to share - it's all very simple stuff, the elements just work very elegantly together. I'm stringing other people's pearls here - the tools are great, putting them together is trivial.

However, having got the elements together, I'm now moving from a TTW approach (yes, I know - I'm a dinosaur!) to a Product approach, which is going to be a pretty steep learning curve for me. I need to document my starting point (which is effectively a common folder of scripts and templates, which the working pages access by acquisition), so I'll post a link to the list asking for feedback when I'm at that point.

N.B. This is going to take me at least a couple of weeks - I've got some paying work to finish off before I can move on to that.

I've got a "proof of concept" set of templates without Formulator or any RDBMS interaction that I did somewhere. It's only about three templates and a scrip. I'll post them when I find them, so that you can see how Taconite works with ZPTs, which is the most joyful part of it for me.

--

Regards,

PhilK

'work as if you lived in the early days of a better nation' - alasdair gray

Simon, I created a zexp that demonstrates the use of extjs and zope but I don't know where to put it for anyone that might be interested. Can the wiki.zope.org/zope2 site accept .zexp uploads? This zexp doesn't require the installation of extjs to see how it works because it uses the extjs cached on the extjs site (for demonstration purposes only) This demonstrates: 1. separation of GUI from zope. (you could serve your zope data from one continent and your GUI from another.) 2. use of extjs data storage (client cache of data reduces calls to zope) 3. loading of extjs data storage widget via ajax and JSON 4. ajax submit of form data 5. client side form field validation and my favorite: 6. webserver cache of GUI reduces load on zope making zope more scalable -Tim On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com> wrote:

Tim Nash wrote:

...

up-to-date documentation than anything else. Products are the way to go. It is very much like wriitng 'Scripts Python'. I am going to put a simple 'boring' product on the zope.org site (if they let me) which

Hi Tim.. put it also on http://wiki.zope.org/zope2 if you wish. That is an easy place to grow and rework documentation.

_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

I created an entry and added a link to the zexp on my site. I tried to find a way to upload the zexp to the wiki but I don't see how to do it. I tried mozilla and safari 3 on mac. It may be one of those deals where the icon only shows up on Internet explorer. Here is the link: http://wiki.zope.org/zope2/HowToCreateJavascriptGUI On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 9:48 AM, Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com> wrote:

Tim Nash wrote:

...

I created a zexp that demonstrates the use of extjs and zope but I don't know where to put it for anyone that might be interested. Can the wiki.zope.org/zope2 site accept .zexp uploads?

Hi Tim - yes it can, see the edit form. However there is a size limit, it's either 1Mb or 1Gb. :) See if it works for you.

_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

The tecnique showed by Tim is the same I use at Zope Smart Manager but I prefer prototype and scriptaculous. At this time the most active community is, perhaps, RoR and they use the same libraries And when I use a Zope manage page like the constructor of a product I use ModalBox to show it as a dialog box I like to put in ZSM a drag and drop option to sort the ordered folder objects, to launch the creation dialog and delete object to a trash (I need scriptaculous for things like this) It's amazing what you can do with AJAX! (prototype is the library used) I don't want to program anything else like a desktop program (in fact I believe that the next desktop will be a http server) 2008/4/21, Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>:

Tim Nash wrote:

...

find a way to upload the zexp to the wiki but I don't see how to do

You're absolutely right, I forgot we restricted this to authenticated users when junk uploads became a problem. I did the upload and changed the link. Contact me for a wiki.zope.org login so you can do more uploads, or you may prefer to just link to your site.

Thanks for sharing this example!

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-- Mis Cosas http://blogs.sistes.net/Garito Zope Smart Manager http://blogs.sistes.net/Garito/670