September 2004 - Zope

general API question
by David Evans 06 Oct '04

06 Oct '04

Hello all, I've just started working on zope, coming from java servlet land. so far i'm very happy with my ability to get up and running quickly, its seems to be a great framework that allows very fast development. i am having trouble with the API documentation. i was looking for the full documentation of the request class API, and found this: http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/AppendixB.stx#2… but this seems to be more an overview than a formal API document. for instance one of the user comments mentions the existance of an attribute called "form" that is a dictionary, and i used it in a script and it worked. but nowhere in the request class documentation does it mention that attribute. i took a guess that if "form" was an attribute, so was "cookies" and sure enough, there it was. is there a more complete API reference available, and if not how can i contribute to the update of the curent API to a more complete status? thanks, dave

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Blog recommendations
by John Poltorak 05 Oct '04

05 Oct '04

Does anyone have a recommendation for a blogger? -- John

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Disgraceful
by Tiller, Michael (M.M.) 05 Oct '04

05 Oct '04

<rant> This is such a bunch of bullshit. I am so tired of "the answer is out there somewhere, why can't you find it yourself?" being the justification for not helping people who ask reasonable questions. To add insult to injury Asad was being quite courteous (e.g. he went so far as to thank you for your initial response) and you guys just start jumping all over him. Please explain to me why the mailing list should be a solution-of-last-result??? After all, you can find the solution to every question by looking at the Zope source code...ergo, all questions to the mailing list are a waste of time because the person didn't have the time to go picking through the source code? Personally, I am more than happy to help people with questions if I know the answer off the top of my head. ***What is the big deal?!?*** Just because the answer exists somewhere doesn't mean I expect people to spend lots of their time (**which is valuable too by the way**) to go digging it out. Zope (and Plone) are very complicated systems and not all of us hack the source code to Zope on a daily basis so we don't know all the "ins and outs". If you consider it a waste of your time to answer our questions then DON'T, but there is no need to insult us. I don't know if you noticed but they don't exactly have the mindshare or marketshare of other solutions and I don't think that is likely to change when people come here looking for answers and get nothing but grief. I've said it many times before...if you can't be constructive just don't say anything. You are poisoning this community with this nonsense. In my opinion, the level or arrogance and stubbornness to help on the part of some people on this mailing list is really disgraceful and I can't believe others on this list don't feel the same way. </rant> -- Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: zope-bounces(a)zope.org [mailto:zope-bounces@zope.org] On Behalf Of > Andreas Jung > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 12:32 PM > To: Asad Habib; Andreas Jung > Cc: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope Session Timeout > > > > --On Freitag, 24. September 2004 12:21 Uhr -0400 Asad Habib > <ahabib(a)engin.umich.edu> wrote: > > > Ah, so I see how it is. It takes two to pick on one. Well, who has more > > spare time on their hands, those who post messages to the list asking > for > > help, or those who post messages shunning others that ask for help? Both > > of you could do us all a favor by keeping your worthless comments to > > yourself. > > > > It's all about using existing resources e.g. the Zope Book. People have > spend > a lot of time producing documentation. So don't complain if you don't want > to use it. > > -aj > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

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Event Log Manager
by Marnie King 04 Oct '04

04 Oct '04

Hi, I have recently attempted to include Event Log Manager into my installation of Zope. However, after installing it in my I'm unable to restart Zope successfully. Is anyone able to give any light to this situation. Cheers Marnie ----------------------------------------------- ABS Web Site: www.abs.gov.au

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RE: [Zope] Re: Disgraceful
by Estes, Chris - Virginia 04 Oct '04

04 Oct '04

I am an experienced software developer, looking for a content management system for clients that do not have one and cannot afford the big guns. I started looking at Zope seriously Friday, and signed up for the mailing list. The very first thread I explored was the long, bitter stream of replies to "Disgraceful." I've been around long enough to know that this thread is probably not representative of the entire Zope community. But, if the Zope development/support community members want their product to be a long-term viable option, patience with new users -- including even lazy or stupid new users -- is going to be a part of that. I only say this because I've seen good software whither and die, despite the intentions, dedication, and competence of the developers. I'd like to see Zope continue to succeed. What I've seen of Zope in action so far is pretty impressive. The Zope book is also impressive, but still obviously a work in progress. There aren't a lot of on-the-shelf books with recent publication dates, so help here is vital for new users. I understand and sympathize completely with the frustrations of dealing with users who have not read the manual, who have "forgotten" how to do something, whatever. I have gotten an email from a vice-president of special projects asking for a CD of the Internet. But the answer isn't anger; I've learned my knuckles aren't harder than the monitor. Perhaps a newbies list would help, as suggested below. Maybe more of us should help with documentation, and with answering questions. But public humiliation is a self-defeating strategy; it hinders progress for all. I'll stop now, because I feel a political rant coming on..... -----Original Message----- From: Sophia Grimm [mailto:sophiagrimm@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 1:20 PM To: Tiller, Michael (M.M.); Michael R. Bernstein; zope(a)zope.org Subject: RE: [Zope] Re: Disgraceful Hmmm... Couple of comments about etiquette and documentation... I'm a newbie programmer (not just a newbie to zope), and I usually spend hours researching any topic before I ever ask a question. That said, I find the zope and plone web sites unhelpful to the extreme. I've read the zope book through, as well as other zope manuals, but I usually need practical examples. When I google search for help, I don't always know what to look for, or what I try to look for is not what I find. That doesn't mean that the writers aren't doing a great job -- you are! But not everyone has good search skills, and not everyone will know how to interpret and apply what is written. A newbies list would serve one terrific purpose: Anyone who is on the list to answer questions -- presumably the same people who do it now, like Dieter and Andreas -- would understand that the subscribers will include people like me, who try our best and still need a lot of support. Anyone who doesn't want to deal with that can choose not to subscribe or answer. Unfortunately, there will always be an oversupply of people with questions and far too few to answer. For those who do support us, we hope you know that we appreciate what you do. Please be patient with us! All that aside, email is a horrible medium for communication. What you write can be interpreted so many ways, depending on language, culture, and individual perception. So it's not necessary to use rude words to come across that way. I'm sure that (except possibly within the current thread) no one *meant* to be rude. BTW, I intended this email to be a friendly =-) commentary. --- "Tiller, Michael (M.M.)" <mtiller(a)ford.com> wrote: > > > From: zope-bounces(a)zope.org > [mailto:zope-bounces@zope.org] On Behalf > Of > > Subject: [Zope] Re: Disgraceful > > > > The Zope Book chapter on sessions is currently the > sixth result here: > > http://www.google.com/search?q=zope+sessions > > Really? For me, this is the sixth result: > > http://vsbabu.org/mt/archives/2003/05/16/resetting_zopes_session_timeout > .html > > I'm assuming that is not what you meant. > > Interestingly, I couldn't find the Zope book in the > first six *PAGES* of > results. Perhaps Google gives you a different > result than me for some > reason, but I entered it just like you typed it. > > The point is to say where to find the information is > "obvious" is > clearly subjective. > > > I think you need to read 'How to ask questions the > smart way': > > http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html > > I'm curious, what part specifically did Asad not > follow? > > By the way, did you happen to see the part about how > to answer them? > There is a lot of good stuff there like: > > Be gentle. Problem-related stress can make people > seem rude or stupid > even when they're not. > > Reply to a first offender off-line. There is no need > of public > humiliation for someone who may have made an honest > mistake. A real > newbie may not know how to search archives or where > the FAQ is stored or > posted. > > If you can't help, don't hinder. > > Ask probing questions to elicit more details. > > While just muttering RTFM is sometimes justified > when replying to > someone who is just a lazy slob, a pointer to > documentation (even if > it's just a suggestion to Google for a key phrase) > is better. > > > - Michael Bernstein > > -- > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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content.asp?content_category_id=1
by John Poltorak 01 Oct '04

01 Oct '04

How can I import a file called content.asp?content_category_id=1 to Zope? Neither that name or content.asp%3Fcontent_category_id=1 appear to be acceptable. -- John

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setting flags
by John Poltorak 01 Oct '04

01 Oct '04

I've just installed a Zope message board and am trying to get it working but get 'Resource not found' errors when trying to add a msg. I think the security is set up correctly, but the problem may be due to the 'integrated' flag not being set to 1... index_html says:- If you want to integrate MessageBoard in your product you must set 'integrated' flag to 1. How/where do I set it to 1? I realise this will probably be in the Zope docs somewhere but have no idea what I should look for. -- John

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python script returning multiple values?
by Laura McCord 30 Sep '04

30 Sep '04

Hi, I have a python script: def userInfo(userName): server = xmlrpclib.Server("http://tweety:8080/RPC2") email = server.da.emailInfo(userName) office = server.da.officeInfo(userName) pwd = server.da.pwdInfo(userName) acct = server.da.acctInfo(userName) dir = server.da.dirInfo(userName) return ..... I need to return all of the values and access them through a zope page template. I can't find any documentation on this situation. I am suspecting I probably need to create a list in my python script but not sure yet how to display the values in my zpt. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Laura

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Re: [Zope] general API question
by Dieter Maurer 30 Sep '04

30 Sep '04

Please stay on the list... -- readded David Evans wrote at 2004-9-29 16:07 -0400: > ... >No offense intended, No problem, I can live with different opinions... > ... >Coming from J2EE world, I am able to look as deeply as i >like into the classes that comprise Struts and Tomcat. You can do that with Zope to an even greater extend: it is open source down to the very basics... But nobody provided documentation for all details -- aside from the not too bad source documentation. And I am convinced that this is not bad! You can use documentation extraction tools (like "DocFinder" or "epydoc") to derive most mass documentation. Most of Java documentation you know was derived in the same way. But, as you do not have full source, someone else had to extract it for you. With Zope, you can extract it yourself. > ... >It seems to me >that without a good understanding of the request and session objects and >the available methods and properties of these objects it will be >difficult to write complex applications that are not fragile. I think, I already told you that the most relevant aspects of the request and response objects are documented in the Zope Book. You can write complex applications with the most relevant aspects. You rarely need the more arcane features. In those rare case, you have the source as a last ressort. >Are you a >developer of zope itself or a user of the product? I am a user. Probably one can call me a high end user. But, if necessary, I change Zope, too, or provide additional products and patches as you can see at <http://www.dieter.handshake.de/pyprojects/zope> -- Dieter

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Re: [Zope] Newbie namespace question
by J. Cameron Cooper 30 Sep '04

30 Sep '04

Jeffrey Blaze wrote: > Thanks. I thought that the first process to see the page was HTML, > hence my confusion as to how HTML would know how to deal with a foreign > attribute. > > Where does the TAL parser live? How does it see the page before HTML? HTML is a language, not a program. A web browser, among other things, interprets HTML to make what you see on the screen. Web browsers do not (now, at least!) understand TAL, and will ignore any attributes they do not understand. So something must sit between the template and the requesting program to transform the template. Zope (and a few other programs) understands TAL, and will, before handing a page to a requesting client (like a web browser), interpret the TAL and METAL statements, creating an HTML page. --jcc

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