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Re: [Zope] trees, hypernews and frames - solved
by Andy Heath 12 Mar '00

12 Mar '00

> That's the crunch. How to get the fancy header served > when its displayed outside the frameset but not served > when its inside. If it were all in zope then this could > be done by passing a variable value so the page could > know how it was called but hypernews does not pass on > anything like this when it fetches content from other > servers. > > Anyone think of a way round this? Done it client side with Javascript. Con't be done server-side. > Andy -- ------------------------------------------------- Andy Heath a.k.heath(a)open.ac.uk The Open University +44 (0) 114 2885738

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Security mess
by Lucas Vogel 12 Mar '00

12 Mar '00

I think I am making a mess of my security settings in trying to develop a site. Could someone please explain the 'Access contents information' and 'view' security settings for me, please? Thanks -- Lucas Vogel lucas7(a)home.com ICQ: 44697169

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Re: [Zope] No resposne to valid HTTP requests.
by Hung Jung Lu 12 Mar '00

12 Mar '00

curtis maloney <curti-(a)umd.com.au> wrote: >Yes, I am using SiteAccess. However, this site has been working ... Two >seperate sites showing the same problems at the same time? Coincidence? >Not likely. Your problem definitely seems to be coming from SiteAccess. Evan should be able to help you out. What you may want to do first is to disable SiteAccess first. Something like: http://www.whatever.com/__no_before_traverse__/path/to/rule/manage_main' Then go to the management screen and UNDO that very last thing that causes SiteAccess to get into infinite loop. If Zope is not problem, do you have Apache re-write rules somewhere modifying your URLs? The first time I used SiteAccess was also my last time. It was so freaking scary to have a hang-up situation where you cannot do anything except cry in desperation. :) Several people have reported problems with SiteAccess. It's not that I don't think SiteAccess is great: its concept is great, just that I don't ever want to get into this kind of scary situation again. :) I am waiting another few months before I get more reliable version of SiteAccess or its equivalent in Zope. And no, thanks, I won't be a guinea pig to reproduce the bug. :) Hung Jung ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Re. Client-side Zope
by Jerry Spicklemire 12 Mar '00

12 Mar '00

This concept was kicked off by a specific need that led to discussions of polling, XML-RPC, Java RMI, JavaScript, and others that I can't recall. But, an unrelated need brought it home last night. The ZSchool project will at some point involve lot's of folks who won't be online constantly*, and suddenly Client Side Zope starts to look interesting. Keep in mind, it's Zope! For those of you who have sworn off all things Microsoft and have grown accustomed to the "joys" of compiling and tweaking Zope / Apache / etc. on all varieties of *n*x, you may not realize that getting Zope running on Windows takes about five minutes. Thats five minutes for a newbie. It's just a Windows "Install". Now, if anyone mentioned Client Side Oracle Application Server, or Client Side Lotus Notes, we'd know they'd lost it. But Zope is actually small and nonintrusive enough to pull this off. Think about a world full of Zopelets, on all those nifty palm thingies. Your local WorldPilot could sync up with a central WorldPilot periodically, but you'd still have "all" your data available while you're off-line*. Same with Xen Project Manager, zSchedule, etc. Of course that's just the beginning. A generation of new apps we've not dreamed of yet that could make this thing explode, when we figure out how to really exploit XML-RPC, and whatever comes next! Later, Jerry S. * I'm not holding my breath for us all to have wireless persistent IP anytime soon . . .

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Zope pack in window ?
by Choi He Chul 12 Mar '00

12 Mar '00

I am use Zope at Win 2000 beta.. and I download .zexp file. there are any way to extract .zexp file?

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Re: [Zope] dtml-var behavior
by Sin Hang Kin 12 Mar '00

12 Mar '00

I am writing a method, which apply to a object and try to wrap the object with some thing, This is <html><head>....</head> <body><table><tr>... <dtml-var this> </tr> </table> .... </body> </html> So to keep all start tags and end tags in the same object. I can do that for a folder by making the method call index_html and call the index_htm object. But I want to publish anyobject by adding this method to it: abc/publish will warp abc with the apropriate html codes which traditionally in zope is done by header, var, footer. which might result in the opening tags in header and end tags left in footer. Rgs, Kent Sin

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Calling a Z SQL Method directly
by Douglas Bates 12 Mar '00

12 Mar '00

I am a little confused about how to call a Z SQL Method directly from within a DTML document or a DTML Method. The application is web-based access to a bibliographic database. I have one Z SQL Method that looks up publications by author names, or by words in the title, or by keywords. I set up a search interface to that method. I am now trying to modify the DTML Method for generating a report from such a query. I have read the Z SQL Method User's Guide but apparently I haven't understood it completely. To make things definite I will describe a simple case. Suppose I look up one author's name. The Z SQL Method is called search_author. The columns it returns include the "id" for each reference listing, the "type", the "year", and the "title". I have also created a Z SQL Method called return_authors that takes a single argument "id" and returns the names of the authors, one per row, in the correct order for the publication. Another Z SQL Method, return_journal, also takes an "id" number and returns the title of the journal, the volume and number, the beginning page and the final page of the article. While I am processing the results of search_author in the DTML method, I would like to be able to call return_authors and return_journal directly. It is not clear to me how I do this. I had hoped that I could use a dtml-in tag to call these methods while I was within another dtml-in but either I am misinterpreting the effect of dtml-in or I haven't got the sequence right. What I was trying looked like <dtml-in search_author size=50 start=query_start> ... <tr> <td><dtml-var year null=""></td> <td><dtml-var title null=""></td> <td><dtml-in return_authors start=query_start> <dtml-var name>; </dtml-in></td> <dtml-in return_journal_info start=query_start> <td><dtml-var title></td> <td><dtml-var vol null=""></td> <td><dtml-var bpg null="">- <dtml-var epg null=""></td> </dtml-in> </tr> ... </dtml-in> I was hoping that the <dtml-var id> from within the <dtml-in> loop would be propagated to a call to return_authors or to return_journal. I understand that I can use a URL to call the Z SQL Method but I am hoping I can do it "inline", as it were. I would appreciate any suggestions. -- Douglas Bates bates(a)stat.wisc.edu Statistics Department 608/262-2598 University of Wisconsin - Madison http://www.stat.wisc.edu/~bates/

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RE: [Zope] Zope needs this (and Dynamo has it)
by Alexander Staubo 12 Mar '00

12 Mar '00

(This is getting quite off-topic. Let's keep this brief.) > From: Hung Jung Lu [mailto:hungjunglu@hotmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2000 3:19 AM > To: faassen(a)vet.uu.nl; alex(a)mop.no; zope(a)zope.org > Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope needs this (and Dynamo has it) > > > >alexander staubo <ale-(a)mop.no> wrote: > I think Zope's > source code is one > >huge, glowing argument in favour of > > > having protected members. > > Having worked with C++ for a long time, and later with Java, > I can tell you just how much I hated the whole thing about > data "encapsulation." > > The whole mumbo-jumbo stuff about data hiding has one and one > single purpose [snip] Having worked with C++, Python, and Object Pascal for a long time, I tend to agree, with a few modifications: - encapsulation helps keeping the code self-documenting -- nobody can accidentally access hidden members; - it aids documentation tools in that visibility rules can be seen as metadata -- "source navigator"-type object browsers can categorize members (methods and data) into their various protectedness; and - most significantly, hiding data and replacing direct access with clearly defined accessor methods lets you control access (such as synchronizing access from multiple threads) and also provide behaviour -- often data is calculated on demand rather than stored, and often related objects must be notified when data is changed. Python doesn't have accessor methods, but uses __setattr__ and __getattr__() instead, which is less intuitive -- a code browser cannot easily infer the access interface from the class definition alone -- and certainly slower -- but also more flexible. I'm a big believer in pure-code interfaces, keeping data hidden and restricting all reads and writes to accessor methods; languages such as Dylan and Object Pascal fortunately have accessor-method support built into the language, so referencing an attribute foo.name would actually be resolved by the compiler into a call to foo.GetName(). Python doesn't really need this, since its attributes are all dictionary-stored. Btw, as for private data members that are very specific to an implementation of a class, Ada95 solves this quite elegantly through packages, which are similar to C++ namespaces. I don't remember if Ada has language-assisted accessor method support. > > > Python has no "out" parameter, only "in" parameters that > > > are mutable depending on the type of the object passed. > The syntax I'm > > > alluding to would effectively give you both "out" and "const" > > > parameters. > >But that might result in a lot of incomprehensible code. I'm > not sure if > >I'm in favor of having 'out' parameters anyway. constness as > defined in > >C++ is also tricky, as it infects code; everything that touches it > >needs to be const-correct. Python tends to be less strict in > this area. > > Yes, another thing that I consider to be stupid in C++ is the > overuse of const, or its use at all. Again, generations of > programmers are taught into this thing about usage of const, > and buying into it without questionning. Const is overrated but often useful. Given C++'s absolutely antique object paradigm -- heap-based objects that aren't garbage-collected, meaning you end up dabbling with pointers *a lot*, or use confusing reference-counting smart-pointer template classes that go all over the place -- I like pass-by-reference better. I'm absolutely annoyed with C++. This is one reason: class Foo; class Bar { Foo F; }; class Foo { Bar B; } This, of course, won't compile -- the class Foo is undefined at the time Bar is declared. This means that a class A cannot contain a member of another class B if B already contains a member of class A, unless one of them stores the member as a pointer reference. This certainly screws up any reference-counting smart-pointer scheme, or at least makes it bloody hard to keep simple. > Keep Python simple. The role of Python is CP4E (Computer > Programming For Everyone.) In Java or C++, you have to type > all the extra stuff about public/ private/ protected/ void/ > abstract/ static/ synchronize/ final/ const/... before you can > do something. I know many people that live in that world and > refuse to simplify their lives... well, then again, I also > know people that lives in the Perl world and insist that Perl > is a very readable language. :) Readability and verbosity are not the same things. Java is at least an improvement on C++'s readability, but it is occasionally perhaps too verbose. But not compared to, say, Dylan, which has keywords like "required-init-keyword"; in spite of this, it's a great language once you get used to it. I rather like Borland's Object Pascal myself. It's suitably verbose to be readable, strict enough to catch most trivial errors in the compilation phase, statically-typed enough to perform really well, and just plain likeable. It doesn't have operator overloading, parameterized classes, multiple inheritance, or synchronized members, although it does have interfaces, static, abstract, const, and member visibility constructs. Here's the above snippet in OP: type Foo = class; Bar = class B: Bar; end; Foo = class F: Bar; end; (And this compiles.) > > Hung Jung -- Alexander Staubo http://alex.mop.no/ "`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" --Douglas Adams, _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_

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Redirection problems
by Stephen Pitts 12 Mar '00

12 Mar '00

Right now, visitors to my site at http://www.centralchurchyouth.org go through the following redirection: http://www.centralchurchyouth.org (running IIS) to http://www.centralchurchyouth.org:8100/ (running Zope) to http://www.centralchurchyouth.org:8100/Home/ (the real home page) This works in Netscape but doesn't work in IE. The user gets all the way to the third page but it doesn't render. Upon further analysis, all of the absolute_url calls (like "<dtml-var "stylesheet.absolute_url()">" produce http://www.centralchurchyouth.org/xxx instead of http;//www.centralchurchyouth.org:8100/xxx, so the page has a broken logo, etc. I think it has to go with the HTTP session between IE and http://www.centralchurchyouth.org:8100/, but I'm not sure what. Using wget also returns a correct page. Surely someone has come across this issue. -- Stephen Pitts smpitts(a)midsouth.rr.com webmaster - http://www.mschess.org

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Re: [Zope] Zope needs this (and Dynamo has it)
by Hung Jung Lu 12 Mar '00

12 Mar '00

>alexander staubo <ale-(a)mop.no> wrote: > I think Zope's source code is one >huge, glowing argument in favour of > > having protected members. Having worked with C++ for a long time, and later with Java, I can tell you just how much I hated the whole thing about data "encapsulation." The whole mumbo-jumbo stuff about data hiding has one and one single purpose: divide the programmers into engine programmers and app programmers, so the engine programmers and exercise full control over app programmers. It has more to do with MONEY and corporate POWER CONTROL than with technology. The private/protected keywords are an enterprise feature... designed for big companies. And generations of students are taught into this stupid c**p about "data encapsulation." Funny thing is, many actually buy the idea, get burnt for a few years and refuse to acknowledge they are being burnt ("if it is mentioned in textbooks, there must be a reason... it must be good for me..."), and only then to realize much later... hmmm.... maybe "data encapsulation" should be done by convention and not by syntax. > > Python has no "out" parameter, only "in" parameters that > > are mutable depending on the type of the object passed. The syntax I'm > > alluding to would effectively give you both "out" and "const" > > parameters. >But that might result in a lot of incomprehensible code. I'm not sure if >I'm in favor of having 'out' parameters anyway. constness as defined in >C++ is also tricky, as it infects code; everything that touches it >needs to be const-correct. Python tends to be less strict in this area. Yes, another thing that I consider to be stupid in C++ is the overuse of const, or its use at all. Again, generations of programmers are taught into this thing about usage of const, and buying into it without questionning. Python uses references for object parameters in function calls. It can also return tuples. That's enough. Really. Keep Python simple. The role of Python is CP4E (Computer Programming For Everyone.) In Java or C++, you have to type all the extra stuff about public/ private/ protected/ void/ abstract/ static/ synchronize/ final/ const/... before you can do something. I know many people that live in that world and refuse to simplify their lives... well, then again, I also know people that lives in the Perl world and insist that Perl is a very readable language. :) Hung Jung ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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