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RE: [Zope] Zope, performance and multithreading (beginner questions)
by Alexander Staubo 09 Jul '99

09 Jul '99

Well, you can have a "true multi-threaded database server" without supporting transactions -- of course, it might be all this and still not be efficient. ;-) But if properly designed, with minimalistic thread locking (no "global spinlocks"!), a multithreaded RDBMS can be fairly efficient even without support transactions. However, a good transaction design would not just make it faster, it could be simpler to coordinate -- especially if data integrity is a goal -- within the database kernel, too. Of course, transaction design isn't necessarily simple -- all sorts of interesting problems with transaction isolation, dirty read support and so forth. -- Alexander Staubo http://www.mop.no/~alex/ "What the hell, he thought, you're only young once, and threw himself out of the window. That would at least keep the element of surprise on his side." --Douglas Adams, _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_ >-----Original Message----- >From: itamar(a)porthos.maxnm.com [mailto:itamar@porthos.maxnm.com]On >Behalf Of Itamar S.-T. >Sent: 9. juli 1999 17:07 >To: Zope-l >Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope, performance and multithreading (beginner >questions) > > >Rob Page wrote: > >> MySQL doesn't support transactions. Chris Petrilli here has >the details >> but I'm led to believe this is a fatal blow to MySQL's >ability to _ever_ >> (at least until it does support txns) reliably support >threaded usage. > >>From the MySQL homepage: >"MySQL is a true multi-user, multi-threaded SQL database server." > >I don't know much about the subject, so could someone explain >this seeming >contradiction? > >-- >Itamar - itamars(a)ibm.net >-----------------------------o-------------------------------------o > Sealingwax Greeting Cards | The only good morning is a dead one | > http://www.sealingwax.com/ | --Richard Stallman | > >_______________________________________________ >Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org >http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > >(For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, >zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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RE: [Zope] Zope, performance and multithreading (beginner questions)
by Alexander Staubo 09 Jul '99

09 Jul '99

>-----Original Message----- >From: zope-admin(a)zope.org [mailto:zope-admin@zope.org]On Behalf Of >Michel Pelletier >Sent: 9. juli 1999 16:03 >To: 'ex(a)uiah.fi'; Zope@Zope. Org >Subject: RE: [Zope] Zope, performance and multithreading (beginner >questions) > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Samu Mielonen [mailto:ex@uiah.fi] >> Sent: Friday, July 09, 1999 5:36 AM >> To: Zope@Zope. Org >> Subject: [Zope] Zope, performance and multithreading (beginner >> questions) >> >> >> Hello, >> >> another set of newbie questions from somebody who's just >> begun with Zope: >> >> If I try to aim for moderately good (or beyond that) performance >> with Zope, what should I use for data storate (Z ODB3, MySql)? > >That decision should be based purely on the structure of your data. if >it's relational, go MySQL, if it's not, don't. Performace comes from >good application design. Anybody know how well MySQL performs with multiple threads? Last I heard, it serializes database calls, which isn't exactly promising. >> What about http-server, if perfomance needs to be fast for >> multiple concurrent dynamic pages with a lot of persistent >> storage access? Apache, Medusa, something else? > >Apache might be a bit slower in terms of latency (total time >to complete >request) due to a moderatly expensive fork() call that happens in PCGI >but we've seen PCGI do a million hits a day on modest hardware, nothing >to sneeze at. I don't know PCGI except superficially, so could you explain why this is even necessary? Is it necessary with mod_pcgi? Can't you have a two-split architecture as is possible under NT with IIS+ISAPI and the Zope service? I imagine you could have Zope running as a daemon which would accept IPC calls from an Apache module (mod_zope?). The idea of forking off a process for every request is, well, "stupid" is one word that comes to mind. I know that UNIX process management is faster than on NT, but it's still not good design. >> Also, will I benefit (performance wise) from running >> Zope under Linux in a 2 CPU SMP configuration? (i.e. is >> it multithreaded properly to take advantage of more >> than one cpu)? > >Sure. Please note that Python has a global interpreter lock, which >means that even if the program is multi-threaded, only one >thread can be >interpreting python code at at time. This does not exclude, however, >computations and IO from happening simultaneously, and of course other >processes which are involved like Apache (if you use it) can take >advantage of the other processor. Do you know of any plans in the Python community to improve this (in my opinion, shoddy) design? >> Any other issues that I should consider when aiming >> for fast response times under a heavy load? (i.e. >> specific coding/design approaches, except doing >> most everything in C :) >> > >Zopes response time is good, I've been doing some informal benchmarks >and I can get about 40 responses per second, this is very >impressive for >a dynamic system, I'd be interested in seeing how the other Java based >app servers compare (they probably don't). Other than that, >good design >is your friend. 40 responses/sec for a single client, or multiple clients? It'll be _very_ interesting to see how Zope2 scales with multiple clients. (Anybody notice how PC Magazine awarded -- not altogether surprisingly -- Editor's Choice to Windows NT Server in a web server test than also included Netscape, Solaris, and Stronghold (Apache hybrid) on Linux?) >-Michel > >> Best regards, >> Samu Mielonen >> >> -- >> "Zone of proximal development - ...the conceptual space or >> zone between what >> a [human] is capable of doing on his or her own and what [he/she] can >> achieve with assistance from ... a more capable peer." - The Penguin >> Dictionary of Psychology >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org >> http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope >> >> (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, >> zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >> > >_______________________________________________ >Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org >http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > >(For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, >zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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file upload question
by michael＠garage.co.jp 09 Jul '99

09 Jul '99

Hi all I would like to write a dtml script that will upload files to a specific directory, not to Zope (or as an Zope object). Can anyone please give me some pointers. Help appreciate. Thanks. Michael

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RE: [Zope] file upload question
by Michel Pelletier 09 Jul '99

09 Jul '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: michael(a)garage.co.jp [mailto:michael@garage.co.jp] > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 1:23 AM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] file upload question > > > Hi all > > I would like to write a dtml script that will upload files to a > specific directory, not to Zope (or as an Zope object). Can anyone > please give me some pointers. > Not to Zope? What server software will be answering this request to upload? Apache? FTP? -Michel > Help appreciate. > > Thanks. > > Michael > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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RE: [Zope] Why can't I use "index.html#literature" in Zope docume nts anymore?
by Michel Pelletier 09 Jul '99

09 Jul '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Rachid van Es [mailto:rachid@whymi.demon.nl] > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 1:14 PM > To: Zope Mailing List > Subject: [Zope] Why can't I use "index.html#literature" in Zope > documents anymore? > > > Hi, > > I guess the title says it all, why can't I use > "index.html#history" to jump > to an <a name="history"> tag? > This is purely a fuction of the browser, Zope has nothing to do with it. -Michel > Regards, > Rachid > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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RE: [Zope] Zope database format for Zope 2.0
by Michel Pelletier 09 Jul '99

09 Jul '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Michel Pelletier [mailto:michel@digicool.com] > Sent: Friday, July 09, 1999 10:08 AM > To: 'Martin Dougiamas'; 'zope(a)zope.org' > Cc: jeffbauer(a)bigfoot.com; Brian Lloyd > Subject: RE: [Zope] Zope database format for Zope 2.0 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Martin Dougiamas [mailto:martin@dougiamas.com] > > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 11:40 PM > > To: 'zope(a)zope.org' > > Cc: jeffbauer(a)bigfoot.com; Brian Lloyd > > Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope database format for Zope 2.0 > > > > > > Jeff Bauer wrote: > > > > > > Brian, > > > > > > My one comment about switching to ZODB3 format is > > > that Zope should be able to recognize and intelligently > > > respond to the user who has the old .bbb format. The > > > response can be a simple: Hey Genius! Get with the > > > program and convert your database ... > > > > Yes, exactly. eg: > > > > The Zope database you are using is from an older version of Zope. > > Please use the "convert-to-zodb3" program in your zope > directory to > > upgrade your database, like this: > > > > convert-to-zodb3 /opt/zope/var/data.bbb > > > > > > The .bbb files are not even looked at by Zope running in > ZODB3 mode. If > Zope runs in ZODB3 mode, then Data.fs is used, if ZODB2, Data.bbb. > Since Zope has know way of knowing if running in 2 or 3 mode is your > intention, then it can't really spit up an error message about it. > Running ZODB2 mode is not really an error situation. > Ok, I just got the word that this is not the case since ZODB2 will not be in 2.0 final. Oops! -Michel > -Michel > > > > > Martin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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RE: [Zope] unexpected failure....
by Michel Pelletier 09 Jul '99

09 Jul '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Jens Vagelpohl [mailto:tommymi@concentric.net] > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 4:58 PM > To: Zope@Zope. Org > Subject: [Zope] unexpected failure.... > > > I was just playing with a database connection and had made up > a form to > collect some data, which calls a page giving feedback and at > the same time > the ZSQL method to do the actual processing. This stuff was > successful the > first few times, but all of a sudden Zope restarts. I get a > "Page cannot be > displayed" error. Checking the database I see that the record > has not been > added. > > The ZServer log (var/Z2.log) doesn't show anything about it. > > This is what appears on the command line from where i started Zope: > > uncaptured python exception, closing channel > <zhttp_channel connected 192.168.168.3:4358 at 844b718 channel#: 7 > requests:10> > (exceptions.KeyError:String > [/usr/src/Zope-2.0.0a3-src/ZServer/medusa/asyncore.py|poll|59] > [/usr/src/Zope-2.0.0a3-src/ZServer/medusa/asyncore.py|handle_r > ead_event|285] > [/usr/src/Zope-2.0.0a3-src/ZServer/medusa/asynchat.py|handle_read|110] > [/usr/src/Zope-2.0.0a3-src/ZServer/medusa/http_server.py|found > _terminator|43 > 4] > [/usr/src/Zope-2.0.0a3-src/ZServer/medusa/http_server.py|found > _terminator|15 > 1] > [/usr/src/Zope-2.0.0a3-src/ZServer/HTTPServer.py|found_terminator|293] > [/usr/src/Zope-2.0.0a3-src/ZServer/HTTPServer.py|continue_request|264] > [/usr/src/Zope-2.0.0a3-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/HTTPRequest.p > y|__init__|246 > ]) > > > What could the reason be? does "exceptions.KeyError:String" > imply that I am > misusing a string in the input data? Even when i just leave > out all fields > that don't require input data I still get the error. The only > fields I am > passing, apart from empty strings, are two integer values. > You said it worked at first, can you reproduce this with a different pair of methods? if you can reproduce it and send us the code, we can fix it. -Michel > :( > > Jens Vagelpohl > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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RE: [Zope] ZClass in a ZClass error
by Michel Pelletier 09 Jul '99

09 Jul '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce C. Dillahunty [mailto:bdillahu@mindspring.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 10:31 PM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] ZClass in a ZClass error > > > > I'm a new Zoper (Zopee???), so this may (probably is) just a > mistake in use, > but I can't seem to add a ZClass inside of (on the methods > page) another > ZClass. When I do, I get: > > exceptions.AttributeError > > AttributeError: 'None' object has no attribute 'root' > > Any ideas? > No ideas, but I can reproduce this, so it's definatly a bug. Can you please put it in the Collector so we don't forget about it? Thanks. http://www.zope.org/Collector -Michel

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RE: [Zope] Zope database format for Zope 2.0
by Michel Pelletier 09 Jul '99

09 Jul '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Dougiamas [mailto:martin@dougiamas.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 11:40 PM > To: 'zope(a)zope.org' > Cc: jeffbauer(a)bigfoot.com; Brian Lloyd > Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope database format for Zope 2.0 > > > Jeff Bauer wrote: > > > > Brian, > > > > My one comment about switching to ZODB3 format is > > that Zope should be able to recognize and intelligently > > respond to the user who has the old .bbb format. The > > response can be a simple: Hey Genius! Get with the > > program and convert your database ... > > Yes, exactly. eg: > > The Zope database you are using is from an older version of Zope. > Please use the "convert-to-zodb3" program in your zope directory to > upgrade your database, like this: > > convert-to-zodb3 /opt/zope/var/data.bbb > > The .bbb files are not even looked at by Zope running in ZODB3 mode. If Zope runs in ZODB3 mode, then Data.fs is used, if ZODB2, Data.bbb. Since Zope has know way of knowing if running in 2 or 3 mode is your intention, then it can't really spit up an error message about it. Running ZODB2 mode is not really an error situation. -Michel > > Martin > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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RE: [Zope] Zope, performance and multithreading (beginner questio ns)
by Michel Pelletier 09 Jul '99

09 Jul '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Samu Mielonen [mailto:ex@uiah.fi] > Sent: Friday, July 09, 1999 5:36 AM > To: Zope@Zope. Org > Subject: [Zope] Zope, performance and multithreading (beginner > questions) > > > Hello, > > another set of newbie questions from somebody who's just > begun with Zope: > > If I try to aim for moderately good (or beyond that) performance > with Zope, what should I use for data storate (Z ODB3, MySql)? That decision should be based purely on the structure of your data. if it's relational, go MySQL, if it's not, don't. Performace comes from good application design. > > What about http-server, if perfomance needs to be fast for > multiple concurrent dynamic pages with a lot of persistent > storage access? Apache, Medusa, something else? Apache might be a bit slower in terms of latency (total time to complete request) due to a moderatly expensive fork() call that happens in PCGI but we've seen PCGI do a million hits a day on modest hardware, nothing to sneeze at. > > Also, will I benefit (performance wise) from running > Zope under Linux in a 2 CPU SMP configuration? (i.e. is > it multithreaded properly to take advantage of more > than one cpu)? Sure. Please note that Python has a global interpreter lock, which means that even if the program is multi-threaded, only one thread can be interpreting python code at at time. This does not exclude, however, computations and IO from happening simultaneously, and of course other processes which are involved like Apache (if you use it) can take advantage of the other processor. > > Any other issues that I should consider when aiming > for fast response times under a heavy load? (i.e. > specific coding/design approaches, except doing > most everything in C :) > Zopes response time is good, I've been doing some informal benchmarks and I can get about 40 responses per second, this is very impressive for a dynamic system, I'd be interested in seeing how the other Java based app servers compare (they probably don't). Other than that, good design is your friend. -Michel > Best regards, > Samu Mielonen > > -- > "Zone of proximal development - ...the conceptual space or > zone between what > a [human] is capable of doing on his or her own and what [he/she] can > achieve with assistance from ... a more capable peer." - The Penguin > Dictionary of Psychology > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (For developer-specific issues, use the companion list, > zope-dev(a)zope.org - http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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