December 1998 - Zope

Re: [Zope] - Setting __bobo_realm__
by Jim Fulton 09 Dec '98

09 Dec '98

"Christopher G. Petrilli" wrote: > > OK, this SHOULD be easy :-) It is. > I know that the security realm used for > BasicAuthentication is set using __bobo_realm__ (and BTW, still is) and > defaults to the module name (Main) if nothing is set. > > So, I figured, easy, I'll just add a property to the folder with that > name and away we go... nope, I get an error that properties starting > with '_' are verbotten... so, just how does one do this? You know what > would be neat, is if there were something on the Security page to set > this, just a simple box to fill in! :-) ZPublisher also checks for an environment variable, BOBO_REALM. (In the next release, it will check for Z_REALM first :) and uses it if there is not module-level realm setting. You could provide BOBO_REALM in a PCGI file directive: BOBO_REALM=spam In the next release, you'll also be able to supply environment variables on the serve.py command line. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:jim@digicool.com Technical Director (540) 371-6909 Python Powered! Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com http://www.python.org Under US Code Title 47, Sec.227(b)(1)(C), Sec.227(a)(2)(B) This email address may not be added to any commercial mail list with out my permission. Violation of my privacy with advertising or SPAM will result in a suit for a MINIMUM of $500 damages/incident, $1500 for repeats.

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- undefined symbol
by Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy 09 Dec '98

09 Dec '98

Any ideas on where I should start looking for this problem? Upon trying to look at /manage page: ImportError: ./Acquisition.so: undefined symbol: _Py_NoneStruct This happens when I try to run Zope with Httpdapy on Linux. It worked fine on my Solaris machine... Both are Python 1.5.1 and Apache 1.3.3 compiled with pretty much same options. Is Acquisition.so linked with python libraries, and where does it look for Python libs during compile? Thanks, Grisha

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Re: [Zope] - How do I change the name of the / icon
by Jim Fulton 09 Dec '98

09 Dec '98

David Warman wrote: > > The documentation example shows the root folder Icon associated with the name "Plutonia". > My version has no name, nor any apparent way of changing it. The docs do not say how > the hypothetical user set his site name. First, there is really not much of a notion of a site name in Zope. To the degree that there is a site name, it is defined to be the suffix of the URL, following the host name, used to access the site. For the ZopeHTTPServer, this is an empty string. What would you like to use the site name for? Do you simply want a better decoration for the top-level folder in the navigation pane? Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:jim@digicool.com Technical Director (540) 371-6909 Python Powered! Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com http://www.python.org Under US Code Title 47, Sec.227(b)(1)(C), Sec.227(a)(2)(B) This email address may not be added to any commercial mail list with out my permission. Violation of my privacy with advertising or SPAM will result in a suit for a MINIMUM of $500 damages/incident, $1500 for repeats.

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Re: [Zope] - Zope, source, CVS
by Jim Fulton 08 Dec '98

08 Dec '98

Kent Polk wrote: > > Hi shuntley (shuntley), in <862566D3.005E046B.00(a)ssaus1.notes.ssax.com> on Dec 7 you wrote: > > > I've been trying to evaluate content management systems with an eye toward > > whether they can be adapted to version control of code. All code version > > And other types of documents as well, I hope. :^) > > > control packages currently extant are severly lacking to one degree or > > another, and it seems from my shallow knowledge that the web content > > providers are solving the problems the code developers are content to put > > up with (please observe that CVS is still the cutting edge. Gag.). > > > > Apparently Zope supports object versioning. The Zope page mentions that > > the staff is about to go through the horror of setting up a public CVS > > tree. So allow me to ask this question: > > > > IS IT POSSIBLE TO USE ZOPE TO STORE AND SERVE ITS OWN SOURCE? > > Storing and serving is trivial. > > I'll see if I can stick my foot in my mouth first. Brian or Jim > can confirm if it's firmly seated there... The versioning that > Zope supports is more related to a transaction model than to > version *control* of documents. Exactly, and to supporing undo (and possibly time travel). Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:jim@digicool.com Technical Director (540) 371-6909 Python Powered! Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com http://www.python.org Under US Code Title 47, Sec.227(b)(1)(C), Sec.227(a)(2)(B) This email address may not be added to any commercial mail list with out my permission. Violation of my privacy with advertising or SPAM will result in a suit for a MINIMUM of $500 damages/incident, $1500 for repeats.

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Re: [Zope] - Thoughts on FTP access
by Jim Fulton 08 Dec '98

08 Dec '98

Paul Everitt wrote: > > Chris wrote: > > Sad but true, I was just sitting here thinking about how the > > FTP access > > thing might work into the object database (spurred on by Paul's > > excellent start at a Q&A). > > I think you and I need to get out more on weekends :^) > > > One thing that struck me was how to manage Versioning when someone is > > FTPing new objects in... either there should be an implicit > > new Version > > created, which I prefer really (more below), or a QUOTE SITE command > > should be used... > > I'm not clear on what problem you are trying to solve here. Is it that > you view the entire FTP session as one atomic transaction, and nothing > should be "live" until they either log out or do some kind of commit? > > > The reason I prefer an implict new version (perhaps named > > FTP-YYYYMMDDHHMMSS based on the start time of the session) is > > because at > > least with the tools I use most of the time to work with web sites > > (BBEdit, Emacs, GoLive CyberStudio) there's really no option to send > > commands ahead of things, so you're stuck with the default behavior. > > _If_ I've stated you goal correctly above, I'll confess I think you're > on to something. FTP is different than HTTP as it is stateful. You log > in, do a bunch of requests, then log out. Thus, it is valid to re-think > the transaction model for ftp. I wouldn't rely too much on the state-full-ness of FTP. Many FTP tools tear-down FTP connections after a period of time and reestablish them as needed. You wouldn't want your application/editing sematics to be dictated by some tool like ange-ftp. > As for choosing between implicit or explicit, how about have it both > ways? That is, have a knob in the Zope GUI that lets you set how FTP > transactions should work on a folder? Possibly, although I think that sessions would provide a more direct way to control this. I'm planning to add a feature to sessions that would allow sessions to be turned on by traversing them, rather than with cookies. For example, suppose you have a folder, F, containing a document, D, and a session S. Doing an FTP put to: F/D whould modify the document directly, but doing a put to: F/S/D would make the modification in a session. Actually, (undocumented sigh) Draft objects do this now. In fact, you could use a Draft object disable FTP access except in sessions. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:jim@digicool.com Technical Director (540) 371-6909 Python Powered! Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com http://www.python.org Under US Code Title 47, Sec.227(b)(1)(C), Sec.227(a)(2)(B) This email address may not be added to any commercial mail list with out my permission. Violation of my privacy with advertising or SPAM will result in a suit for a MINIMUM of $500 damages/incident, $1500 for repeats.

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- Some documentation for peer review
by Michel Pelletier 08 Dec '98

08 Dec '98

Hello, I would like anyone who is interested to look at the document: http://icebox.dlogue.net:8998/Zope/ and please review it and comment. Send comments to me (mike(a)icebox.dlogue.net) I am looking for comments on any aspects. I expect there will be errors and Jim will have to wave the dead chicken over the section on Acquisition before even I would believe it. Michel

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Re: [Zope] - File uploading fails "The parameter, id, was omitted from therequest."request."
by Jim Fulton 08 Dec '98

08 Dec '98

Andreas Jung wrote: > > I get the error message above when I try to upload a file through the > management screen - both with id given or no id ! This is due to a bug in Python 1.5.2a1 and a2. Either use Python 1.5.1 or get the latest cgi module from the python.org read-only CVS server. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:jim@digicool.com Technical Director (540) 371-6909 Python Powered! Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com http://www.python.org Under US Code Title 47, Sec.227(b)(1)(C), Sec.227(a)(2)(B) This email address may not be added to any commercial mail list with out my permission. Violation of my privacy with advertising or SPAM will result in a suit for a MINIMUM of $500 damages/incident, $1500 for repeats.

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Re: [Zope] - Finding recently changed pages
by Jim Fulton 08 Dec '98

08 Dec '98

Kent Polk wrote: > > Hi A.M. (A.M. Kuchling), in <199812061624.LAA25965(a)207-172-39-232.s232.tnt10.ann.erols.com> on Dec 6 you wrote: > > > At http://discuss.userland.com/msgReader$857 , Dave Winer suggests > > that Web sites should have a top-level siteChanges.xml file that lists > > URLs that have recently changed. Search engines could then use this > > information to only crawl pages that have changed recently, which > > would let them keep up to date more easily. How would one go about > > implementing something like this under Zope? > > This is an interesting issue that ties in with what I've been > doing. I've built several 'document management' sites using > the old Principia. All of them, up to this point, stored the > bibliographic content in an SQL database. This bibliographic > database made it real easy to implement a 'What's New in the > last ___ days?' sort of thing as an sql query, which is terribly > useful for people who use web site info as a 'library'. IMO, > automatic information 'dating' should be available with all > publishing models. As should be searching and versioning... > (did I just shoot myself in the foot? :^) Here, your application defined what the important object was, wrt date, the bibliographic record. > There are some very interesting issues wrt to dating, searching > and versioning for ZOPE that I think need to be addressed. I'm > not exactly sure how to address them because the problem is fairly > complex. I've gone through a number of scenarios and keep coming > back to the concept of a 'multi-part' document Product that > incorporates those three issues PLUS provides a mechanism to > build, maintain, and view those documents. What do I mean? Good > questions as I'm not sure myself. But let me try to explain... > > Multi-part issues: > HTML documents are typically inherently multipart documents > as they often reference other types of data such as images, > spreadsheet tables, etc. Many other types of documents also > are associated with data which is directly related but typically > don't have a linking mechanism to automatically access the > other parts. Documents also often need to be stored and/or > published multiple ways. Searching an MSWord document is > a complex problem, possibly creating (or storing) a text version > to be available for search purposes when the main document is > loaded is appropriate. I agree, but I use slighly different jargon that reflects my different viewpoint. URL's point to *objects*. Objects may have multiple parts, which may be simple properties, sich as strings and numbers, methods, whose role is to manage or present object information, or complex subobjects. > Versioning issues: > Almost every document management system is required to have a > versioning mechanism, whereby old versions of documents can be > referenced and extracted. (IMO, Versioning is similar to multi- > part document handling) How so? I'm not disagreeing. I'm just curious how you see them as similar? > Dating issues: > All documents, including versions, should have a date associated > with them (often two or three dates... :^( It's obviously hard to pin down which dates are important, at least in general. See my response to Andrew. > 'Publishing' issues: > How to make multi-part documents available? IMO, all of the parts > of a multi-part document are related to that document. A folderish > object seems to apply for wrapping multi-part documents. Exactly. > This > object's primary method would present the latest version of the > main document part when requested. Other methods would present > the list of versions, parts, etc. Yes. > Search issues: > Methods for indexing and date-searching to provide 'what's new?' > sorts of accesses. Note that 'What's New?' can be easily further > constrained by further bibliographic information or possibly client > cookie mechanisms quite easily... Yes, but this seems to be very application dependent. > Creation and Editing issues: > I think this issue starts to come in line with the current discussion. > One problem I have with users adding documents to Principia is that > many operations have to be performed before the document is readily > available to be published within the constraints of the environment. Could you elaborate? > (several issues that don't necessarily apply to everyone). Most of > my clients just want to make these documents available and don't > want to have to build the html reference pages to do so. > > TinyTables has recently met with great acclaim by my users because > I can provide them with a reference generator and they can just > edit the TinyTable data and not have to learn HTML or worry about > correct HTML syntax (typos, etc). > > I keep thinking that a heirarchy of Products to provide versioning, > parts, and editing/publishing would greatly assist this 'problem' > > Now, I haven't even touched on the issues of how/where the data is > to be stored, as I think there needs to be flexibility here and > several other issues, but Ty and I are probably going to take a > whack at this concept of multi-part documents to try to address > these issues and I thought it would be appropriate to see if it is > enough of a concern to anyone else such that at least the design > ought to be a community effort in order to make it more useful to > others. > > Any Comments? I think there needs to be a way of more easily defining new kinds of objects in Zope. Zope can't really know when a change to a folder is meaningful for your application. But if you could implement your own application objects, using Zope building blocks like folders, documents, etc, then you could control what information was used for determining things like "modification time". You could also provide management interfaces that make ir easier for your customers to manage your objects. A fairly high priority for me is to come up with a through-the-web Zope class system that would make it pretty easy for you to implement the sorts of "multi-part" documents you want. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:jim@digicool.com Technical Director (540) 371-6909 Python Powered! Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com http://www.python.org Under US Code Title 47, Sec.227(b)(1)(C), Sec.227(a)(2)(B) This email address may not be added to any commercial mail list with out my permission. Violation of my privacy with advertising or SPAM will result in a suit for a MINIMUM of $500 damages/incident, $1500 for repeats.

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- Developer Docs Updated
by Amos Latteier 08 Dec '98

08 Dec '98

Hi all: I've improved the Zope developer docs a bit. We've still got a long way to go, but we're getting closer. http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Developer Now there's: * Documentation of the Zope Debugger (previously bobo.py) * More stuff on Product API Much, much more to come. -Amos

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- Authenication problems when on webhost?
by Jimmie Houchin 08 Dec '98

08 Dec '98

I haven't installed Zope yet. I have been reading the documentation and posts here. There have been a couple of post by Michael Grinder which have not been answered and concern me. Maybe they have not been answered because there isn't a good solution. If that is the case I prefer to know. For those of us who have to use a webhosting service we are at the mercy of what they (the webhost) will permit and what is required configuration wise by Zope. Are there any options for configuring for Authorization that can be done by those of us who use a webhosting service? Any help appreciated. Thanks. Jimmie Houchin Michael's messages below. First Message: > Date: 7 Dec 1998 00:59:18 -0000 > From: "Michael Grinder" <grinder(a)cs.montana.edu> > Subject: [Zope] - Need Help -- Zope & Apache > > Hi. I'm trying to get Zope running with Apache on my machine at home. > I would like to evaluate it for some web projects I'm working on. > If I decided to use it, it will be running on my web hosting service > where I won't have root access. > > I was able to get everything running fine on the Zope http server, > but getting it to run on Apache has proved to be challenging. > Actually, it runs fine except for authentication. > I set things up exactly as described in doc/INSTALL.txt, > but I keep getting this message: > > <snip error message> > > Apparently I am not setting up the URL rewriting properly. > If, for example, Zope.cgi is in /home/grinder/public_html > (~grinder/Zope.cgi) and the Zope installation is in /home/grinder/Zope, > how would one make the rewriting for authentication work properly? > > If I were to deploy Zope on my webhosting service I would only have > user access so I won't be able to modify apache config files, etc. > How would one go about setting up Zope without root access? Second Message: > Date: 8 Dec 1998 18:08:21 -0000 > From: "Michael Grinder" <grinder(a)cs.montana.edu> > Subject: [Zope] - Rewrite rules somewhere besides httpd.conf? > > Can the Apache rewrite rules be put in a file other than httpd.conf? > For example, could they be put in a file local to the Zope directories > such as a .htaccess file?

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