January 1999 - Zope - Zope lists

- Strange...
by Magnus Lie Hetland 19 Jan '99

19 Jan '99

Well... Now I installed Python and Zope anew on my FreeBSD box, and it worked wonderfully. I don't know what went wrong previously. (Oh, wait -- that might have been before the admin here upgraded the OS... Hm...) -- Magnus Lie Hetland www.pvv.org/arcadia <arcadia(a)pvv.org>

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- Selling Zope to your organization
by Gabe Wachob 19 Jan '99

19 Jan '99

Hey folks- Has anybody here had to go through the experience of selling Zope (and Python) to your own organization over another technology (esp. Perl/CGI)? At Findlaw, we are largely an open-source shop (though, we find our selves still using NT/IIS for a few reasons), and the folks we have all use Perl. I've tried to extoll the virtues of Python to the team members, but usually the response is "Bah, Perl works, I know it, and I don't want to learn something new". I could take the dictatorial stance and say 'learn it', but thats not my style. I'd rather "sell it" to the folks so that we have buy in and enthusiasm. Zope seems like it could be a big part of that "sales pitch". That is, I'd like to be able to sit down with someone and show them how to write a "send mail to the webmasters" page without having to learn much Python at all. Has anyone had any success doing this? Has anyone used Zope as a way to get people using Python? What sort of resistance have people experienced in moving from Perl/CGI to Zope? Is performance ever cited as an objection? Having to learn a new language? The newness of Zope and Python? The relative lack of popularity of Python and Zope? Open-sourcedness? Single-sourcedness (of Zope), even if open source? Licensing issues (particularily the "logo" license requirement)? Apparent complexity? -Gabe

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RE: [Zope] - Help with Zope . . .
by Paul Everitt 19 Jan '99

19 Jan '99

David wrote: > I'm looking for some detailed help, being new to both Zope > adn Python, and I'm hoping > someone here can take the time. (Note: David, mail delivery attempts fail to you with a PMDF error message) In addition to getting general tips and guidance from the list, another option is to get consulting from us or others. Lately we have been offering some limited free consulting in exchange for case studies and testimonials from companies, if that is of interest to you. We hear repeatedly from people evaluating Zope that ask: "Who is using it?" Answering this question is a priority for us. > I would like to use Zope to help build a procedures database > system for our > company (about 8k employees). The starting project is a much > scaled down > goal of providing for a procedures database for the dozen or > so IS people. > > I have a mysql database, and a Zope page that will allow me > to insert data into > the page. What I need to figure out how to do is: > > a) login the user to the system and GET that information for > the DHTTP script. DHTTP? > b) create a new UNIQUE folder for the created procedure > username+DateTime.timeTime pehaps This is the concept of "DTML scripting". For a related example: http://www.zope.org/Documentation/HowTo/SampleGadfly > c) provide a way to upload the procedure (an HTML page & > associated images adn/or files) to the new directory FROM THE > PAGE that gets the information about the procedure for the database. 1) Create a Document that has an ACTION pointing to another Document and the right MIME type (multipart). 2) Create an HTML form that has a INPUT field of type file, e.g.: <input name="procedures:file" type="file"> 3) In the second document, do something like:  Don't forget the Object Reference: http://www.zope.org/HelpSys/ObjectRef/hs_main (also in Zope as the Help tab) > If I could figure out 'a' from the documentation (which I've > yet to do correctly it seems), I > could figure out b . . . since the O'Rielly python text has > some very clear examples in it. > > I am clueless as to how to do 'c.' I figured out how to use > the netscape "Publish" feature to > 'PUT' a page once you know the URL, but I would like it to be > more 'automagical' than that. I > would like the user to just be able to give the local path > (on their machine) to the base page, and have it and all the > associated files moved over. Ahh, all the associated files. Yes, that's Netscape Publishing. There's a bug in the current support for it for which a change has been checked in for Zope 1.10. --Paul Paul Everitt Digital Creations paul(a)digicool.com 540.371.6909

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RE: [Zope] - What is the proper way to migrate a Zope Server?
by Brian Lloyd 19 Jan '99

19 Jan '99

> I'm trying to move my win32 ZHTTPServer Implementation of Zope to a > new machine and directory. > > Moving from E:\Program Files\ZopeOne to another machine in > D:\ZopeOne > > I copied the ZopeOne directory tree, changed the start.bat > and serve.py > file. > > The manage interface works, but when I try to view my > index_html files, > I'm getting an error (traceback below). > > Note the incorrect paths in the traceback (referring to > E:\Program files) I > uses find from the manage interface to search for E:, can't > find it. I > grep'd my files, can't find it. > > Note that I did NOT run the Zope installation script on the target > machine, is that the problem? Probably -- the way to move a win32 installation is to: o install a new Zope instance on the new machine o install any add on products (Z database adapters, etc.) that existed in your old instance into your new instance. o shutdown the Zope instance on the old machine o copy the contents of your var/ directory from the old instance to the new one. o if you have an Extensions/ directory in your old instance, copy it and all its contents to the new instance. o crank up the new instance on the new machine. Brian Lloyd brian(a)digicool.com Software Engineer 540.371.6909 Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com

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RE: [Zope] - Zope on FreeBSD?
by Jeff Bauer 19 Jan '99

19 Jan '99

> Has anyone successfully compiled Zope on FreeBSD? I would be > interested in a pre-compiled tarball or something... (Somehow, > I can't compile the source version here...) Magnus, Is the problem just with compiling PCGI, or is it more pervasive? Have you posted your compilation results to support(a)zope.org? I'm aware that there is a problem with PCGI on FreeBSD and that we need to get it fixed -- hopefully with the assistance of someone who is running a FreeBSD system. Please CC me your post to support(a)zope.org. Regards, Jeff Bauer Rubicon, Inc.

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- Problem with "date" variable
by chalaouxf＠synbio.tpgnet.net 19 Jan '99

19 Jan '99

Hi There, Tying to play with date variable , I Obtained the following error : ================================================= <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>DB</TITLE></HEAD><BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF"> <TABLE BORDER="0" WIDTH="100%"> <TR> <TD WIDTH="10%" ALIGN="CENTER"> <STRONG><FONT SIZE="+6" COLOR="#77003B">!</FONT></STRONG> </TD> <TD WIDTH="90%"><BR> <FONT SIZE="+2">System Unavailable</FONT> <P>This site is currently experiencing technical difficulties. Please contact the site administrator for more information. For additional technical information, please refer to the HTML source for this page. Thank you for your patience.</P> </TD> </TR> </TABLE>  </BODY></HTML>  ================================================= François-Régis Chalaoux Bioinformatics Group Synthélabo Biomoléculaire 67080 Strasbourg Cedex FRANCE Tél : 03 88 60 87 14 Fax : 03 88 45 90 70

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RE: [Zope] - pcgi and multi concurrent access
by Jeff Bauer 19 Jan '99

19 Jan '99

> as far as i understand, only one process is created with pcgi. > > What if 2 clients send 2 queries simultaneously? > Does one client wait until the other complete the request? The current version of PCGI waits for the first request to complete before servicing subsequent requests. The next version of PCGI (to be released soon) will support concurrent requests. Best regards, Jeff Bauer Rubicon, Inc.

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- Zope on FreeBSD?
by Magnus Lie Hetland 19 Jan '99

19 Jan '99

Has anyone successfully compiled Zope on FreeBSD? I would be interested in a pre-compiled tarball or something... (Somehow, I can't compile the source version here...) uname: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0 (I't an intel maching -- at least so I believe ;) -- Magnus Lie Hetland www.pvv.org/arcadia <arcadia(a)pvv.org>

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Re: [Zope] - Best way to input validation
by ajs＠pigpond.com 19 Jan '99

19 Jan '99

>>>>> "Paulo" == Paulo Eduardo Neves <neves(a)inf.puc-rio.br> writes: Paulo> Is there a best way to validate input form data? Jim> What would you like to do if an input is not valid? Paulo> Probably show the same form and the completed data with an Paulo> error message indicating why some fields were not valid. At Paulo> least a message in portuguese, since most of my readers won't Paulo> understand the english error message. Paulo> I was thinking about coding a javascript library to validate Paulo> the data in the client, but I'm convinced now that it isn't Paulo> the way to go. If I use the "automatic" error handling Paulo> feature I *can't* properly (from a usability view) handle it. A while back I wrote a javascript module that does exactly this -- it automatically tries to validate the form elements on the client-side. You still need to do validation on the server side (for many many reasons), but I figured it was better to try and catch things client-side. This reduces the likelihood of the user actually seeing the "automatic" error from Zope while still letting you use the marshalling, which is nice. Last time I posted this (on the Bobo list) there wasn't much of a reaction, but maybe there will be this time. If anyone decides to use it, please note that the module doesn't know how to validate some :tags since I only implemented the easy ones and those which I needed myself. - Andrew -- #!/usr/bin/env python print(lambda s:s+"("+`s`+")")\ ('#!/usr/bin/env python\012print(lambda s:s+"("+`s`+")")\\\012') print(lambda x:x%`x`)('print(lambda x:x%%`x`)(%s)')

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RE: [Zope] - Selling Zope to your organization
by Wolf Logan 19 Jan '99

19 Jan '99

that's a lot of questions. in my organization, i came in as a "tool and die" programmer, writing code that was used by consultants to support consulting projects. the consultants themselves worked mostly in perl, so there was a lot of pressure for me to use perl as well. i did a few embedding/extending projects in support of perl, and after seeing its insides, promptly developed a lifelong loathing of the language. having limited expereince with python, i began to explore how it might be used in our organization. when the current project came up, i realized that it could be implemented in python in less than half the time it would have taken to code it in C. i lobbyed for python, and since programming resources were tight, we ended up going with it. the almost immediate functionality of the code, and the subsequent ease of maintenance, sold python pretty well. as part of the python project, we used bobo to code a web user interface around our toolboxes. the entire process took less than an hour, and the quality of the result sold bobo. when bobo became zope, other people in the organization were actually the first to suggest its use in other projects. the most die-hard perl programmer in the company is now talking about learning python and zope. i think we're pretty much convinced now. basically, python sells itself in terms of immediate results *and maintenence*. it proved to be much easier here for a team of engineers to use python cooperatively than it did for them to use perl cooperatively. i don't know if that had to do with the language or the engineers, but it worked for us. performance has never been raised as an objections, primarily because for our purposes, python is actually faster than other options. (example: we have a simple web-proxy doohicky that has to make a few decisions about the proxy target based on the request. writing it in python sitting on sam rushing's asyncore, it's faster than almost anything...and it integrates smoothly with the rest of the system in ways that would be hard to do otherwise.) zope sells itself based on ease of implementing complex systems. writing a simple call-tracking system for a help desk is a one- or two-day project in zope, and it scales pretty well to lots of complex features. in general, zope tends to be one of the most convenient ways to access functionality through the web. find an existing project and web-enable it with zope. that's usually a convincing demo. open-sourcedness is less of an issue here, but it does make it very easy to slip zope into an organization. you don't need a big budget approval to "try it out"...and if it works, you can move directly into production with just the branding requirement. > -----Original Message----- > From: Gabe Wachob [SMTP:gwachob@findlaw.com] > Sent: Monday, January 18, 1999 5:05 PM > > Hey folks- > Has anybody here had to go through the experience of selling Zope > (and Python) to your own organization over another technology (esp. > Perl/CGI)? . . . > . . . Has anyone had any success doing this? Has anyone used > Zope as a way to get people using Python? > > What sort of resistance have people experienced in moving from > Perl/CGI to Zope? Is performance ever cited as an objection? Having to > learn a new language? The newness of Zope and Python? The relative lack > of popularity of Python and Zope? Open-sourcedness? Single-sourcedness > (of Zope), even if open source? Licensing issues (particularily the > "logo" license requirement)? Apparent complexity? >

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