February 1999 - Zope

RE: sendmail and variable mailto
by Shaw, Howard 13 Feb '99

13 Feb '99

Well, I see in the earlier 'Hiding Products' discussion how to set folder properties. But that makes me wonder... What happens when two people hit my page at the same time? Each enters their data, including an email, and reach the response page at about the same time. The contents of the pages are uniquely rendered, but surely their interactions with folder properties could cause some weird overlap, like this: A requests the page. B requests the page. Zope starts processing A's page. Zope sets the folder attribute based on A's email address Zope starts processing B's page. Zope sets the folder attribute based on B's email address Zope sends mail for A to current folder address - which is B's address. Zope sends mail for B to current folder address - which is B's address. A gets no response. B gets two responses. This won't do. I really need to be able to send mail using only the received variable, and no folder properties; at least no dynamic ones. Please help.

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sendmail and variable mailto
by Shaw, Howard 13 Feb '99

13 Feb '99

This seems intuitively obvious... it just doesn't work...   Nothing much.   where home_emails is a variable from a form. I tried a test using   Nothing much.   and   Nothing much.   Please help. I really need to be able to selectively send mail to either home_emails or b_emails or neither, depending on which actually contains a value. If I can't include a variable as a mailto, can I set the folder attribute 'mailto' from within the script on the basis of the same selection, then use sendmail with on mailto? Will it find it then? The example in the DTML User's Guide implies it would, but I don't know how to set the folder attributes dynamically.

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RE: [Zope] Shattered dreams... And glibc
by Shaw, Howard 13 Feb '99

13 Feb '99

Well, after a couple of hours of playing around with it and no crashes, I have connected the Zope driven database I was working on into our website. Hopefully, the changes I have made have fixed the problem. But I have another question... I am using as a mailhost my NT Exchange server... I am not sure whether the mailhost connection works or not. If the mailhost fails to work, where and how would the system notify me of this? Would it show up as a comment in the source of the viewed page, or in a log file, or where?

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Andy's DTML examples
by WWW Admin 13 Feb '99

13 Feb '99

hi all, i'm having problems replicating the relatively simple formData example in the contributed DTML examples folder. for some reason i'm able to create the properties that the formData is looking for. i'm creating these two string properties: checkBoxOptions: dogs cats birds radioOptions: baywatch birdwatch babewatch anybody know what i'm doing wrong? regards, webman --------------------------------------------------------------------------- webman | _ beehive GmbH | ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) berlin, Germany | - against HTML email X http://www.beehive.de | & vcards / \

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Installation on Solaris
by Dick Weisinger 13 Feb '99

13 Feb '99

Hi, I've helped convince the people at nexusweb to become a Zope ISP. They're pretty friendly in responding to me, most ISPs that I talked with flatly refused to have anything to do with Zope. But it looks like they're having problems getting it up and running on a Solaris machine. Any pointers someone can pass their way in the installation? Not exactly sure what the problem is. Thanks Dick Weisinger

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FW: [Zope] Shattered dreams...
by Shaw, Howard 13 Feb '99

13 Feb '99

Note: The mentioned enclosure was removed for transmission to the mailing list. ---------- From: Jim Fulton [SMTP:jim.fulton@digicool.com] <mailto:[SMTP:jim.fulton@digicool.com]> Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 6:56 PM To: Shaw, Howard Cc: support(a)digicool.com; <mailto:support@digicool.com;> zope(a)zope.org <mailto:zope@zope.org> Subject: Re: [Zope] Shattered dreams... "Shaw, Howard" wrote: > (snip) > Have you just started using Zope? Or have you been using > Zope for a while without problems? > > I started using Zope fairly recently, and had only gone so far > as to > make it a mirror of my pre-existing site using fsimport. > > Can you take MySQL out of this mix for a while to see if it has > any > effect? Are there any other products installed that are not > part of the Zope distribution? > > I can say that having just reinstalled the zope binary distro, I > saw no > regular stoppage of the zope server until after I reinstalled > the ZMySQLDA > and connected to the database. I have not manually installed any > other products, > though I did install the external method 'fsimport'. Please try running Zope without the ZMySQLDA and see if that has any effect As in remove the product; or disconnect the database connection? (snip) > It would also be interesting to us to see your database files. > Would you mind sending them to us (as an attached gzipped > tar ball or Zip file)? > > I assume you mean the Data.BBB* files. Actually, the var directory. > Do you want the files > from the current > working setup (which is exhibiting the recurrent loss of Zope with no > messages) > or the non-working Data.BBB, or both? I'm confused. Are you saying that you have a working setup that, asside from having ZopeHTTPServer die, is not having problems? How does this relate to the broken site. What I'm saying, is that I had a working setup; subsequently it developed a periodic death syndrome; then finally cratered completely after this wierd session problem. I presumed a connection, with no evidence, simply because it seems logical to me from the description I've read of the Bobo database, that the Zope server being cut off while accessing the file might leave the database in an uncertain state. The scenario I pictured was one where some portion of the basic database structure was corrupted, but the region internal to the session was not. Work within the session went fine, until the save, where it attempted to access the corrupt portion, failed, rolled back the changes, but was not able to 'undo' the session. This fits your general documentation, which implies that while individual changes can be individually undone, the application of a session can only be undone in the sense of a complete removal, and not of a restoration of the session to its prior state. Subsequent to the session difficulty, I started editing in the open. I only managed to touch four or five files before the database died and then refused to restart, which makes me think that I then manipulated the damaged region in such a way as to cause damage to the structural information, whereas before the damage was to the internals of individual items. Of course, all of this is complete guesswork. I never saw any useful log message other than the final message about a corrupt record. Therefore the fact that my ZopeHTTPServer is periodically dying implies that a similar crash lurks in my future. The reason I was unsure which you wanted, is that my theories imply that this working DB may contain information about the cause of the crash, while the other DB is completely inaccessible, so far as I can tell. Of course, I realize that working more directly with Bobo, one might be able to extract data more effectively than through Zope, which of course has a greater set of dependencies. For starters, please send the var directory containing the non-working Data.bbb files as a gzipped tar file. It is included. > I assume you don't want these > mailed to > the list; Right. Please send to jim(a)digicool.com <mailto:jim@digicool.com> . (Note that I didn't CC the list in my message to you.) > should I send them to your personal account? Yes. jim(a)digicool.com <mailto:jim@digicool.com> . > The problems you are reporting are very odd. Needless to say, > we don't see them here, so any info you give would be very > helpfull. > > Please feel free to call me at the number below if you're > interested in brainstorming this. > > I am very interested in determining the cause of and solution > for this problem, especially > since it was, in my opinion, related to the recurrent death of > the ZopeHTTPServer, > which has returned. When I moved the non-working installation to a different directory, and installed a fresh copy of the binary package, I noticed that the first spontaneous crash did not come until after I installed the MySQLDA, even though I spent at least two hours rebuilding the links between a separate portion of the Zope site and my original site. (Using it as a replacement mirror.) The recurrent death returned during my rebuilding of the database using portion of the site. BTW, this is using the Zope internal version of Python with MySQLModule.so compiled from the source obtained with MySQLDA. Did it stop dying? When? Was it related to the use of MySQLDA? > Since I believe it to be only a matter of > time until it dies again, I am > keeping multiple backups of the Data.BBB* files. Are there any > other data files I should > be aware of, for purposes of backup, or do the Data.BBB files > cover it? The Data.bbb files cover it. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:jim@digicool.com <mailto:jim@digicool.com> Technical Director (888) 344-4332 Python Powered! Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com <http://www.digicool.com> http://www.python.org <http://www.python.org> Under US Code Title 47, Sec.227(b)(1)(C), Sec.227(a)(2)(B) This email address may not be added to any commercial mail list with out my permission. Violation of my privacy with advertising or SPAM will result in a suit for a MINIMUM of $500 damages/incident, $1500 for repeats.

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RE: [Zope] Shattered dreams...
by Shaw, Howard 13 Feb '99

13 Feb '99

---------- From: Jim Fulton [SMTP:jim.fulton@digicool.com] Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 4:57 PM To: Shaw, Howard Cc: support(a)digicool.com Subject: Re: [Zope] Shattered dreams... "Shaw, Howard" wrote: > > I just finished implementing a complete rewrite a dynamic database > driven set of web pages inside a session. > > I saved the changes to the session, and quit the session. I immediately > noticed that none of my changes were present. I reopened the session, > and all the changes reappeared, but the option to save the session is > absent. > > Disturbed, I thought it might be some quirk of Netscape caching, so I > cleared the caches, exited netscape, and reentered. > > Now, I can reenter the session at will, but there are no changes between > being in the session and being out of the session, and all my work is > gone, as far as I can tell. > > A notion of what I did wrong, what happened, and whether there is > anything I can do to recover this work would be greatly appreciated. Hi Howard, I know you have been exchanging mail with Mike. I'd like to ask some additional questions. Is Zope installed on a local file system? NFS? Zope is installed on the local filesystem. Have you just started using Zope? Or have you been using Zope for a while without problems? I started using Zope fairly recently, and had only gone so far as to make it a mirror of my pre-existing site using fsimport. Can you take MySQL out of this mix for a while to see if it has any effect? Are there any other products installed that are not part of the Zope distribution? I can say that having just reinstalled the zope binary distro, I saw no regular stoppage of the zope server until after I reinstalled the ZMySQLDA and connected to the database. I have not manually installed any other products, though I did install the external method 'fsimport'. Are you running on your own machine, or on an ISP? This is running on a linux box in my care at my work. Are you using PCGI and Apache? Or ZopeHTTPServer? I am using ZopeHTTPServer, however, Apache is also running on the same machine, serving a web site containing, amongst other things, a PHP3 based database front end that also connects to MySQL, though to a different database. It would also be interesting to us to see your database files. Would you mind sending them to us (as an attached gzipped tar ball or Zip file)? I assume you mean the Data.BBB* files. Do you want the files from the current working setup (which is exhibiting the recurrent loss of Zope with no messages) or the non-working Data.BBB, or both? I assume you don't want these mailed to the list; should I send them to your personal account? The problems you are reporting are very odd. Needless to say, we don't see them here, so any info you give would be very helpfull. Please feel free to call me at the number below if you're interested in brainstorming this. I am very interested in determining the cause of and solution for this problem, especially since it was, in my opinion, related to the recurrent death of the ZopeHTTPServer, which has returned. Since I believe it to be only a matter of time until it dies again, I am keeping multiple backups of the Data.BBB* files. Are there any other data files I should be aware of, for purposes of backup, or do the Data.BBB files cover it? Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:jim@digicool.com Technical Director (888) 344-4332 Python Powered! Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com http://www.python.org Under US Code Title 47, Sec.227(b)(1)(C), Sec.227(a)(2)(B) This email address may not be added to any commercial mail list with out my permission. Violation of my privacy with advertising or SPAM will result in a suit for a MINIMUM of $500 damages/incident, $1500 for repeats.

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RE: Shattered Dreams
by Shaw, Howard 13 Feb '99

13 Feb '99

Just to let anyone who was concerned with my case that the pressure is off for the moment. I have succeeded in re-achieving the status of the Zope database prior to its crash, and moving past. I remain impressed by the system's ease of programming. I had previously implemented portions of these systems in NeoWebScript and PHP3, and it compares favorably with both. (Well, in point of fact, it is far out of NeoWebScript's league, since said lingo is a rotten excuse for web programming. Apparently NeoSoft suffers from the NIH syndrome, which is sad, since I have met some of their techs, and they're generally pretty froody fellows.) However, any advice that anyone can offer regarding how to increase stability, such as examples of particularly stable configurations and what setup was gone through to attain them, would be greatly appreciated.

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RE: [Zope] DISCUSS: Improving default content
by Theodore Patrick 12 Feb '99

12 Feb '99

AMEN - Great Call!!! I guess most of the issues we had here were more thinking in an OO paradigm. That should definitely be covered! Once you see in OO, everything else look archane. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Bernstein [mailto:mbernstein@profitscape.net] Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 3:15 PM Cc: 'Paul Everitt'; zope(a)zope.org Subject: Re: [Zope] DISCUSS: Improving default content Theodore Patrick wrote: > > <START> > Including several folders of info would be most helpful especially > considering the ability to view the source and view the results. This will > make the learning curve disappear. > > Personally I never realized the elegance of Zope until I started working > with forms and considering there was only one example of that feature. It > took me a while to be singing its praises mostly because of the learning > curve. > > <Proposed EXAMPLES> > > 1. A mock site showing the functions and included comments > 2. Language Guide with examples > a. Syntax for DTML - General Examples > b. ZOPE Methods and examples of each > c. Variables and examples of each > d. Zope Expressions and examples > > Go through examples of the different tags List _all_ the tags and methods, even if they're undocumented. <TAG LIST DELETED> > 3. General Zope Guide to OO Design 3a. Factoring Content 3b. Factoring Functionality 3c. OO layout techniques 3d. Guidelines for when and how to use the various extension techniques: DTML Methods, External Methods, Products, Levers, Classes, etc. (plus examples, if possible) > 4. Zope Access Control and Security > 5. SQL and Database Publishing > 1. SQL Language Guide - Examples in Zope > 6. ZOPE ZEN > 7. ZOPE SITE **** GOOD CALL***** > </Proposed EXAMPLES> Good stuff! Michael (it's all good) Bernstein. _______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope

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RE: [Zope] Product Creation Comments
by Kent Polk 12 Feb '99

12 Feb '99

> From: Paul Everitt <Paul(a)digicool.com> > > It's hard for us to know where to start. We got a <FLAME> yesterday > from the exact opposite: more examples with no Python, all DTML. We > also get complaints about debugging the process of getting it started > (apparently Apache configuration is our business as well). > > Do you feel that a format like Amos' tutorial is the best one? Or a > bunch of sample products? Or a reference guide? Amos' product development tutorial was a big help in my attempt to understand this stuff. Part of the problem is that not only are you using a level of OO design methodology that few people actually manage to deal with here, you are using some completely new paradigms which simply take (some of us, like me) time to comprehend. I make little steps, which are executed to the flash of a 1000 candlepowered strobe (to me) but it just serves to illuminate the next stairway. It's hard to make progress when we are so far behind what Jim, Brian, etc are putting out. :^) What I'm saying is that this stuff isn't trivial, and there is a tendency for the frustration to mount as the learning curve is tremendously steep here. I figure it's kinda like trying to explain Relativity back in the '40's when the only real tools available were fairly primitive mathematical tools which pushed their users to their mental limits. That's why there were only a few people who really had a chance to comprehend it back then. As tools and techniques got better and analogies were developed to assist the non-mathematicians in understanding the complexities, it began to seem fairly simple. Now I'm sitting here, trying to figure how in the heck to lay out the classes for this custom (scientific) file-table database product such that it can operate inside of Zope. First, it has to acquire attributes and methods in it's environment, then via class heirarchies. Basically a heirarchical table-of-tables filesystem-based TinyTables :^) And of course, I'm currently hopelessly lost because I don't understand how to create the relationship between a class heirarchy (traversing classes to locate a method) and the database hierarchy, not to mention the filtering heirarchy that I also want to implement which should be inherent in Acquisition. But how? Is supect that I'm somewhat in the same boat as the original poster of this thread - I'm attempting to implement behavior that is implicit in Acquisition, but I simply don't know how to 'let go' and let it do it's thing. What do I hold on to when I let go? I don't see anything there! :^) I agree that to a large extent, the reference material is probably close to complete, but the *comprehension* of what is in the reference material just isn't occurring. That's why, for me, iterative examples of a simple example such as Amos gave (and Mark Lutz's example in 'Programming Python') are so much of a help. As the example grows through the permutations that are possible, both comprehension of Zope technology and Zopeish design 'ethics' become more clear. I see I've covered science, technology, ethics and religion in one posting. Only left out politics... Wait! I'm lobbying now, aren't I??? :^) Kent

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