August 1999 - Zope - Zope lists

RE: [Zope] manage problem.
by Jeffrey Shell 19 Aug '99

19 Aug '99

> currently, we use zope for our intranet. when i reinstalled > it (copied the > data.bbb file to save the content from the previous installation) > the site loads great with all data being displayed as before. > THE PROBLEM: i can't manage it! when i try and manage the site, the > login/password prompt comes up and the login/password i enter is not > accepted. it does match the combo i entered during the > installation. it is > also the same combo i used on the previous installation. i checked the > "access" file to confirm the login/password combo... You mention re-installing. If it's on NT behind IIS, you have to remember to set the authentication. In IIS 3, you have to set the Password Authentication to "Allow Anonymous" in the service properties. I don't know how to do this in IIS 4.

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RE: [Zope-dev] Documentation Tool Requirements
by Michel Pelletier 19 Aug '99

19 Aug '99

I think XML format for all docs is a requirement (up to debate). This way Zope can be used to manage the content using XML Documents, and the passive data can be 'activated' very easily. Also, our current Docs are written in framemaker, which (with the $2K addon) will output SGML and XML. -Michel > -----Original Message----- > From: Stephan Richter [mailto:SRichter@ixl.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 1999 12:14 PM > To: zope(a)zope.org; zope-dev(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope-dev] Documentation Tool Requirements > > > hey Zopesters, > > I originally posted this message to the ZDP list, but I > thought some of you > guys may have some great input too. > > So, here you go. What I am looking for are requirements like features, > usability, workflow, user levels and many other things that > you would like to > see in the new FAQ, Tutorials, How-To's and Reference Manual. > The first two main tools will be FAQ and the Reference > Manual. These will be > implemented first. > Here is the format (XML) you should send the requirements in: > <category title="title"> > <abstract> > Structured Text describing the category (not > neccessary if the > category already exists. > </abstract> > > <entries> > <entry title="title of entry"> > <status>Requirement captured</status> > <rating>1-10</rating> > <name>Your name</name> > <abstract> > Please describe your requirement in > structured text. I did not > write renders for html tags. > </abstract> > </entry> > </entries> > > </category> > > The responses I got so far you can see at: > http://www.zope.org:18200/Members/srichter > > PLEASE DO NOT SEND RESPONSES TO THE ENTIRE LIST SO WE DO > NOT FILL UP MAILBOXES. > I will post the results every night. Please do not reply with > requirements on > the mailing list in normal text format, since it will take me > forever to > extract them and put them into the proper format. Let's see > how strong the > community can be. > > THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR INPUT. > > regards, > stephan > -- > Stephan Richter > iXL - Software Designer and Engineer > > _______________________________________________ > Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > > (To receive general Zope announcements, see: > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > For non-developer, user-level issues, > zope(a)zope.org, http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) >

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RE: [Zope] Re: getting some documentation going:(getting long her e..)
by Paul Everitt 19 Aug '99

19 Aug '99

Lindon wrote: > Oh dear, first it's nice of Michael to send a reply. But can > any of you > Digital Creations people see what the problem with the > answer? Well before I > go critcising it, first let me say I'll have some off-list > discussion with > Michael to see if I can get the sort of documentation going > we need. But > (and I'm sorry Michael to be picking on you - I KNOW its not > you fault) what > those "giving up in frustration" people are talking about is > the fact that > there is NO answer here(as is often the case in other > replies/documentation > - obviously NOT written by Michael by the way). There are three main reasons you haven't seen us jump in with answers: 1) It isn't completely clear what is the question. The world "documentation" means different things to different people. What's the greatest need: reference material, tutorials, questions and answers? Who gets attention first -- new users or deep programmers? Everybody will have different responses, and we need to be prepared to give good ones. Which leads to... 2) The value of us making off-handed replies is zilch. We can continue spreading feel-good vibes promising some just-around-the-corner progress, but nobody's going to buy it. We need to make a response that shows we've listened and thought about the discussion, and are proposing something we are going to follow through on. It's commitment time, not fast response time. 3) Finally, we are chasing _very hard_ the server lockup issues, making fixes and testing them. This _must_ be the priority right now. People won't tolerate broken, but documented, software. With that said, _pleeease_ take this discussion over to the ZDP list before we chase off all the subscribers on this list! Please, please, please! > This reply tells me how great ZCatalogue is(how fast etc. > etc.) and how > I can work with ZClasses(if I design them "right"). In effect > this is a > piece of either developer enthusiasm(always good to see) or marketing > blurb(and if your frustrated already you can easily pick this > option - I'm > choosing not to by the way). So what this doesn't do is tell > me how to > search Zope objects by attribute value, which was the > question I asked. It > is in turns too much information and too little. Correct. > So what I want to see is a simple piece of code that lets > me search my > Zope database where I can, as a complete novice, substitute > my objects and > my attributes to get back a list of things I can itterate > over. Lets ignore > perfomance, b-tree's, ZClass design etc. etc. Assume I have > NOT installed > ZCatalogue(unless of course it comes by default on my NT Zope > 2.0 install, > does it?), and I'm using DTML Documents. In short assume I am > an idiot(you > wont be so far wrong) but I need to get something working > pretty quickly, > and I'll make it graceful later. I completely understand your desire to have this, just as I completely understand the other desires for different, but needed documentation. There's no why Michel was going to drop what he was doing and write the definitive, professional, permanent answer to your question. However, he obviously took out a chunk of time to give you his impression of what you were talking about. Michel spends a LOT of time responding to messages. Many of his answers in fact *are* "here's the code" kind of responses. Others here do the same. I don't think the fault is that we aren't doing anything, rather we aren't doing anything organized. > OK now the specifics are out of the way I want to quickly > offer up a view on > why we need to stop the development process(or slow it down > severely) and > address the documentation issue. In a word "SPECTRA". This is the new > content management tool from Allaire, based on their > ColdFusion web/database > interface. Recently Allaire were out here doing demo's and > training, we were > invited, and attended. So basically it's in the same domain > as Zope and it's > VERY powerful. It will not by the way be the last product in > this domain, > but right now it's shaping up to be the competition for Zope. > Now I don't > really mind if Digital Creations don't think it is the > competition, it is as > far as potential customers are concerned(well the potential > customer I work > for anyway). Understood. We are also told that Vignette is the kind of "content management system" in Zope's space. > The good news is that it's about Aus$12,000 per copy and > wont really be > ready for prime time for about 8-12 months(we think). The bad > news is that > it WILL ship with VERY VERY good documentation. In fact the Hmm, how many pages of documentation have they written already for a product that won't ship for 8-12 months? Are you basing your assesment on the docs that you get for ColdFusion now? Also, since most people don't have the ColdFusion docs at their disposal (after all, you have to pay to get them), could you instead provide an example of an open source project that has good docs that Zope could use instead as a goal? For example, I felt like the PHP crowd does a great job of boostrapping new users. Python does as well. > ticket price > isn't such a differentiator either; anyone (including you > guys at DC) who > thinks Zope is free is really fooling themseleves, ticket > price is but Yes, there is ticket price, annual support and maintenance, future upgrade charges, developer seat licenses, costs for new CPUs if your business grows, etc :^) The point isn't that the customer's aren't willing to pay for it. Rather, this is the money that helps fund the packaging. IMO, if we at Digital Creations provided docs that were as informative as the "big three" in Python (the tutorial, library reference, and language reference), then we'd have an arguable case to say we have caught up. Maybe not with ColdFusion, but with that which should be expected of us. At the same time, if the community could collect the incredible amount of wisdom that is out there, we'd have an arguable case for exceeding what you've described. > one(small) component in the overall cost of software, poor > documentation is > another soaring cost to organisations such as ours. Yep, that's true. > So the only real advantage left is the 8-12 months window, Hmm, I'm not sure I really agree that it is the only advantage, but the response isn't germane to this argument. > which we need > to use for documentation. Now we might all think Zope and the > python/OO > technologies around it as well as its inherent design, flexibility, > extensibleness means we have a better product here, and that > only a deluded > fool would use a relational based blah, blah, blah product. > But the reality > is that Allaire will beat us out here(they have a lot of > experience with > volume delivery) if we don't meet them on MANDETORY issues like good > documentation. We have an opportunity to keep this area of > our industry > open, with the use of Zope. But it will pass us by if we dont > get good > documentation soon. Though I disagree with the assertion that Allaire doesn't have any weaknesses of its own, I certainly agree that reasonable docs are mandatory. Again, our lack of response is for one simple reason: we want to make an informed response. --Paul Paul Everitt Digital Creations paul(a)digicool.com 540.371.6909 ----------------------------------------- The Open Source Zope application server http://www.zope.org/

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manage problem.
by Dennis Sgt Vernon R 19 Aug '99

19 Aug '99

currently, we use zope for our intranet. when i reinstalled it (copied the data.bbb file to save the content from the previous installation) the site loads great with all data being displayed as before. THE PROBLEM: i can't manage it! when i try and manage the site, the login/password prompt comes up and the login/password i enter is not accepted. it does match the combo i entered during the installation. it is also the same combo i used on the previous installation. i checked the "access" file to confirm the login/password combo... any assistance would be greatly appreciated... thank you. Sergeant Raymond Dennis Web Developer, Systems Integration Office Marine Corps Institute 202.685.7494 / dennisvr(a)mbw.usmc.mil

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ZSQL without Zope
by Ol.i Th.uns 19 Aug '99

19 Aug '99

Did anyone use ZSQL without Zope, only with plain Python (and ZPublisher)?

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sort TREE tag backwards?
by thiemann＠ifus.com 19 Aug '99

19 Aug '99

Hello, I trying to use SORT in the TREE tag. Is it possible to sort backwards? (Like a message bord, latest mail on top) Any idea? Beate

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Bounces going to list: fixed
by mpelletier99＠home.com 19 Aug '99

19 Aug '99

The bug in our Zope.org beta site that was causing bounced Membership applications to show up on this mailing list has been trapped, shot, stuffed and mounted. Our appologies if anyone has been inconvenienced, and thanks for uncovering this. Regards, (The Other) Mike. -- Mike Pelletier Please mail me at mpelletier99(a)home.com for now.

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Returned mail: User unknown
by Mail Delivery Subsystem 19 Aug '99

19 Aug '99

The original message was received at Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:18:19 -0700 (PDT) from www2 [209.67.167.110] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- <bouncebounce(a)digicool.com> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to ns2.digicool.com.: >>> RCPT To:<bouncebounce(a)digicool.com> <<< 550 <bouncebounce(a)digicool.com>... User unknown 550 <bouncebounce(a)digicool.com>... User unknown Message delivered to mailing list <zope(a)zope.org>

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Documentation Tool Requirements
by Stephan Richter 19 Aug '99

19 Aug '99

hey Zopesters, I originally posted this message to the ZDP list, but I thought some of you guys may have some great input too. So, here you go. What I am looking for are requirements like features, usability, workflow, user levels and many other things that you would like to see in the new FAQ, Tutorials, How-To's and Reference Manual. The first two main tools will be FAQ and the Reference Manual. These will be implemented first. Here is the format (XML) you should send the requirements in: <category title="title"> <abstract> Structured Text describing the category (not neccessary if the category already exists. </abstract> <entries> <entry title="title of entry"> <status>Requirement captured</status> <rating>1-10</rating> <name>Your name</name> <abstract> Please describe your requirement in structured text. I did not write renders for html tags. </abstract> </entry> </entries> </category> The responses I got so far you can see at: http://www.zope.org:18200/Members/srichter PLEASE DO NOT SEND RESPONSES TO THE ENTIRE LIST SO WE DO NOT FILL UP MAILBOXES. I will post the results every night. Please do not reply with requirements on the mailing list in normal text format, since it will take me forever to extract them and put them into the proper format. Let's see how strong the community can be. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR INPUT. regards, stephan -- Stephan Richter iXL - Software Designer and Engineer

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temporary images
by Robin Becker 19 Aug '99

19 Aug '99

My Zen has vanished. I want to calculate some images and have them displayed. I tried some simple experiments with external methods. ImageClock(self) computes the bytes for a Gif image of the current time. UniqueId(self) returns a unique identifier. ChartClock is defined thusly def ChartClock(self): return self.REQUEST['ChartClock'] when this is displayed I see the first image, but not the second. <dtml-var standard_html_header> <p>This works <img src=ImageClock?_,<dtml-var UniqueId> ></p> <dtml-call "REQUEST.set('ChartClock',ImageClock(_))"> <p>This doesn't <img src=ChartClock?_,<dtml-var UniqueId> ></p> <dtml-var standard_html_footer> Firstly why don't I get an error with too many arguments. Secondly why/how do these two processes differ. The reason for the <dtml-var UniqueId> is to make each view of the clock different. -- Robin Becker

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