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Re: [Zope] Re: reality check - The REAL issue
by Craig P Avnit 11 Dec '99

11 Dec '99

On Fri, 10 Dec 1999, you wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Craig P Avnit <craig(a)londonplaza.co.uk> > To: <zope(a)zope.org> > Sent: Saturday, December 11, 1999 4:44 AM > Subject: Re: [Zope] Re: reality check - The REAL issue > > > > On Fri, 10 Dec 1999, you wrote: > > > Everyone is talking about the difficulty in using Zope and how good Docs > > > would help. I believe, in part, documentation is just masking part of > > > the problem. Zope is way-to-difficult to use. If you're a programmer, > > > you can trudge through and figure out how Zope works. But I'm not a > > > programmer. > > I have yet to see any non programmer deploy a cold fusion, vignette, or > any > > other application server solution. Zope is not nearly as difficult to > > implement as a java servlet based solution. > > > > You will always lose functionality when implementing ease of use in a > > development environment. > > Isn't that the definition of a 'bad' development enviroment. > Are you trying to tell me that Cold Fusion, ASP and Websphere are good because they are easy to use. The problem with developers on those platforms and most windows developers, are that they code the most horrificaly bloated application known to man. Cold Fusion doesn't come close to Zope and Python in functionality and rapid development. > > > > > I don't know what's going on at the code-level, and > > > frankly, I don't want to have to know. If Zope is to truly adopt a wide > > > user base, it's got to be easy enough that the average user and install > > > and deploy Zope. Right now, it's just to complicated for me use. I've > > > got a business to run, I don't have time to mess around with the > > > particulars. > > > > > > > That is why there are people out there like the fine folks at DC, who can > > concentrate on supplying you with the functionality you need to allow you > to > > concentrate on your business. > > I thought the whole idea behind open-source was that there is > a critical mass of users that has to be reached for the flow on > benefits. Those benefits won't arise if the open-source application > isn't competitive, it won't be competitive if it isn't easy to use and > it certainly won't get a critical mass if there is an understanding > that 'best' practice, performance and use are not the watch words. > I agree, but the point a click mentality doesn't help either. You don't use linux because you are in a desktop environment, if windows is so good show me an ISP that trusts there operations to it, I don't. Unix and linux strengths lie in the server arena at the moment. I run a linux box at home, full printer access and all the Destop applications I need. I don't have 5 % of the problems the average window user has. > One reason I haven't move to linux is that it is still not as easy to > use as windows, I just don't want to learn the geekisms. Now to > add positively to this to debate, what Zope really needs is a glossary > of terms, then a one page overview of all components that has > been 'tested' against a panel of average windows users (the > industrial standard), if they can understand it anyone that > matters can. ;-). > Windows are the industry standard for home PC's and desktop, not mission critical high end apps, and distributed computing. Unix is the standard here. I agree that zope does need to be easier to use, and the docs can be improved, but I cannot agree with wanting to aspire to windows mediocrity, or heaven forbid that windows users are the only ones who matter. Most organisations run in spite of windows not because of it. > > Could anyone point me to a one-page description of > a product, where it resides, what it can do for me and > how it interrelates with the other Zope components. > > > > > > > > > > > Just a thought, > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > > No cross posts or HTML encoding! > > > (Related lists - > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > > -- > > Craig P Avnit > > Director > > London Plaza Ltd > > Tel: +44 (0)7000 64-5768 > > Fax: +44 (0)7000 64-5769 > > http://www.londonplaza.co.uk > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > No cross posts or HTML encoding! > > (Related lists - > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > > -- Craig P Avnit Director London Plaza Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7000 64-5768 Fax: +44 (0)7000 64-5769 http://www.londonplaza.co.uk

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MailBits.com: PLS REPLY to CONFIRM [zope@zope.org/1626]
by Your subscription request 10 Dec '99

10 Dec '99

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Re: reality check - The REAL issue
by Jerry.Spicklemire＠IFLYATA.COM 10 Dec '99

10 Dec '99

Hi Zope Fans, The "documentation" issue is back, eh? One point, just to (hopefully) put a cap on it. I have mentioned to more than one DC staff person that I do dearly hope to one day contribute to the documentation effort, however I need to get competent first. There's a bit of a chicken and egg problem here. > "Last I heard, something like 600 people had signed up for membership on > the regular Zope Web site, yet all of only 3-4 people are currently > committing *part* of their time to the Zope Documentation Project. > Where is everyone else?" Well, some of us are out here beating our heads against the current docs, so that one day we'll have learned enough to improve them! Sincerely, Jerry S.

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dtml-in sort variable
by Ethan Fremen 10 Dec '99

10 Dec '99

I'm trying to display a list of the 4 most recenty modified items in a folder. Silly me thought that <dtml-in expr="objectValues(['DTML Document')]" sort=bobobase_modification_time> would have done the trick, but noooo, this shows me the 4 _oldest_ items in a folder. Any clue as to how I can turn this around? Thanks much -- Ethan "mindlace" Fremen you cannot abdicate responsibility for your ideology.

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Re: [Zope] Creating a ZClass instance as a method of another ZClass?
by Tres Seaver 10 Dec '99

10 Dec '99

On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:38:27 -0500 (EST), Jeff K. Hoffman wrote: > > On Fri, 10 Dec 1999, Phillip J. Eby wrote: > > > At 12:11 PM 12/10/99 -0500, Jeff K. Hoffman wrote: > > > > >With the cursor sitting on this line in the debugger, I tried: > > > > > > pdb> p folder[id] > > > <BClass instance at ...> > > > pdb> s # this executes the getattr(folder, id) line > > > AttributeError: 'binstance' > > > > > >It is obvious that my instance has been created, and installed into the > > >methods instance via _setObject(), so I am baffled as to why folder[id] > > >works but getattr(folder, id) does not. > > > > > >Can anyone shed any light on this, for me? Am I trying to do something > > >that's outside the capabilities of ZClasses, or have I just missed > > >something obvious? > > > > Currently, ZClass instances can only be added to objects which store them > > in a way accessible with getattr. And evidently, ZClasses themselves do > > not do that, so you can't add a ZClass instance to a ZClass. > > Ok. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something taboo. > > > This is a bug in the ZClass instance logic, and I know Michel Pelletier > > knows about it (at least, another place where it shows up), but I don't > > know if it has been reported to the collector or a fix is actively in > > the works. > > I found the following, which was posted back in July: > > http://classic.zope.org:8080/Collector/386/view > > It seems it was fixed, but apparently it has been broken again. I will > submit it to the collector in the form of my previous message. > > > I may take a look at this and see if I can submit a patch to speed the fix > > process, as putting ZClass instances into ZClasses is something which will > > be very important to me in the near future. > > Keep us posted on how things go. I will see what I can do, on this end, > too. But, since I am still learning, you'll probably be able to fix it > much faster than I. :) I'm puzzled -- I can add ZClass instances from one of my products to ZClass instances from another of my products through the management interface just fine, on both 2.01 and 2.1. I can't believe that there is any functionality possible through the management interface which can't also be had through Python. Tres. -- ========================================================= Tres Seaver tseaver(a)palladion.com 713-523-6582 Palladion Software http://www.palladion.com

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Can't commit work!
by Art Hampton 10 Dec '99

10 Dec '99

I posed this same question yesterday, and thought I would have heard something already given the severity of the problem. When I went to save the version I've been working in, I got: Zope Error Zope has encountered an error while publishing this resource. Error Type: KeyError Error Value: ~ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here's the traceback: Traceback (innermost last): File /usr/local/zope/Zope-2.1.0-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 214, in publish_module File /usr/local/zope/Zope-2.1.0-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 179, in publish File /usr/local/zope/Zope-2.1.0-src/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line 202, in zpublisher_exception_hook (Object: RoleManager) File /usr/local/zope/Zope-2.1.0-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 169, in publish File /usr/local/zope/Zope-2.1.0-src/lib/python/ZODB/Transaction.py, line 237, in commit File /usr/local/zope/Zope-2.1.0-src/lib/python/ZODB/DB.py, line 576, in commit File /usr/local/zope/Zope-2.1.0-src/lib/python/ZODB/FileStorage.py, line 480, in commitVersion (Object: /usr/local/zope/Zope-2.1.0-src/var/Data.fs) KeyError: (see above) To state the obvious, I'm running Zope 2.1.0 compiled from the source. I have retried the version save operation numerous times, with no success. Yesterday, the error value it was giving me for the KeyError was ' ~', today it is ' G'(there is a little box character just before the G, I'm not sure if the cut & paste will make it show up or not). The machine was rebooted last night, which might account for the change in the error value. So, is my database corrupt (that's my first I-know-nothing-about-Zope-internals guess)? How did it get that way? More importantly, what can I do to fix it, and will it happen again? As for what's changed in the version, an easier answered question would be 'what hasn't changed?' As I've been learning the ins and outs of Zope, I've created/destroyed/renamed/copied/pasted/recreated classes, DTML methods, MySQL querries, etc. I've really been pushing this thing to see how to get done what I need to do (that's how I learn). Again, thanks in advance for any suggestions.

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What is the status of the Portal Toolkit?
by Jim Cain 10 Dec '99

10 Dec '99

I've searched the Zope site and the list archives but have found no information newer than October. I would very much like to use the toolkit components instead of creating my own. Jim

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RE: [Zope] Displaying the text content of a ZClass
by Alexandre Ratti 10 Dec '99

10 Dec '99

At 16:59 06/12/1999 -0500, Michel Pelletier wrote: > > => How can I display the rendered text content for a ZClass? > > It sounds > > simple but I'm stuck. > > > > => I'll rephrase the question: imagine you want to wrap DTML > > Methods in a > > ZClass to make them CatalogAware and add custom properties. > > How do you > > display the content of the ZClass instances ? > >I would think you could just call the ZClass instance like any other >DTML Method: > ><dtml-var myZClassInstance> That's not what I meant: within your ZClass (in the Products folder), you need to create an index_html method to define the default view for your ZClass. Eg.: -YourProduct -YourZClass - index_html - formEditProperties ... other methods index_html will be mapped to the ZClass View tab in Views. What I mean is: how can you access the text content of the ZClass from within index_html? How to you show the text content? If I use <dtml-var raw>, embedded DTML is not interpreted. >This doesn't work? If not, what is the error/traceback? > >BTW, are you getting an error/traceback at some point? No error. I can use <dtml-var raw> in index_html to display the ZClass text content. It works, except that embedded DTML is sent as is to the browser. Thanks. Alexandre >-Michel

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SQL Inserts and Unique keys
by Timothy Grant 10 Dec '99

10 Dec '99

Hi folk, Got a client actually paying me some real money to do a Zope project for them! It is my first one that is not "internal use only." Anyway, I've had to go on the education fast track again, I got Zope lashed up to PostgreSQL and all works beautifully and I'm very pleased. Something else I am very pleased about is the quality of material on this list, I have over 10,000 messages archived, and it has been an invaluable source of information, thanks to each and every one of you who have answered many Zope/SQL questions for me and don't even know it. Now my question, I have a table that has a unique key. When I attempt to do an insert of a duplicate key from Zope, I simply get a "the form has no data" error, how can I handle/trap this condition from within Zope? -- Stand Fast, tjg. Timothy Grant tjg(a)exceptionalminds.com Chief Technology Officer www.exceptionalminds.com Red Hat Certified Engineer office (503) 246-3630 Avalon Technology Group, Inc. fax (503) 246-3124 >>>>>>>>>>Exceptional Minds, Innovative Products<<<<<<<<<<

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Re: [Zope] Creating a ZClass instance as a method of another ZClass?
by Phillip J. Eby 10 Dec '99

10 Dec '99

At 12:11 PM 12/10/99 -0500, Jeff K. Hoffman wrote: > >With the cursor sitting on this line in the debugger, I tried: > > pdb> p folder[id] > <BClass instance at ...> > pdb> s # this executes the getattr(folder, id) line > AttributeError: 'binstance' > >It is obvious that my instance has been created, and installed into the >methods instance via _setObject(), so I am baffled as to why folder[id] >works but getattr(folder, id) does not. > >Can anyone shed any light on this, for me? Am I trying to do something >that's outside the capabilities of ZClasses, or have I just missed >something obvious? > Currently, ZClass instances can only be added to objects which store them in a way accessible with getattr. And evidently, ZClasses themselves do not do that, so you can't add a ZClass instance to a ZClass. This is a bug in the ZClass instance logic, and I know Michel Pelletier knows about it (at least, another place where it shows up), but I don't know if it has been reported to the collector or a fix is actively in the works. I may take a look at this and see if I can submit a patch to speed the fix process, as putting ZClass instances into ZClasses is something which will be very important to me in the near future.

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