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RE: [Zope] Washington, DC area Zope users?
by Michel Pelletier 07 Mar '99

07 Mar '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Edward C. Jones [mailto:edcjones@erols.com] > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 1999 6:05 AM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] Washington, DC area Zope users? > > > Are there any Zope users in the Washington, DC area? > > Digital Creations (the mecca of Zope users) is in Fredricksburg, VA. About 50 miles south of DC. -Michel > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope >

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RE: [Zope] [DTML] creating variables
by Paul Everitt 07 Mar '99

07 Mar '99

Tres wrote: > I too miss Python when working in DTML. But in this case, I I also wish Python could get into DTML. I look at some of the DTML that gets written and think "Ugh, that's pretty awful." Still, I don't yet see an alternative. --Paul

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Creating Zope a zope application
by raver＠box.dust.za.net 07 Mar '99

07 Mar '99

Hi! I'm reading 'A technical introduction to object publishing with Zope'. The doc says 'Creating a Zope application is simply a matter of creating a regular Python module containing the objects to be published, and placing this module along with some Zope-provided support files in the appropriate place on a web server' The doc continues to say that the zope documentation covers this prosess, but I'm not able to find it. So my question is - what are those zope-provided support files, and where am I supposed to place those file along with the python module that I've created? Sture Lygren

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Subfolder Access?
by Jay Ashton 06 Mar '99

06 Mar '99

I think there must be an easy way around a little trouble I'm having, but it's had me stumped for a few days and I can't find any mention in the list/docs. >From a dhtml method I want to access a subfolder's sql methods, which is easy enough using  . The problem is, because of the amount of methods involved and in order to keep things flexible I want to add the  to a standard_header, and the  to a standard_footer. Of course, Zope nixes this. So I was hoping there was an end-run around this dilemna - some other way to give access to subfolders. I've tried including the opening and closing WITH's in the same document surrounded by IF's with no luck, and have been wondering if there's a way to set a folder property to accomplish this... - Jay

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Re: [Zope] [DTML] creating variables
by Tres Seaver 06 Mar '99

06 Mar '99

David Ascher wrote: > Subject: > > On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Pavlos Christoforou wrote: > > > On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, David Ascher wrote: > > > > > What's the equivalent DTML? Can one create a variable in DTML? > > > >  > > ... > >  > > Hmm. I want to create a variable whose value is given by another value. > Doing: > > )"--> >  >  > > doesn't make it through the parser. > > I've tried adding various quotes to no effect. > > I think I'm going to work on understanding ExternalMethods -- this syntax > is not made for me. =) I too miss Python when working in DTML. But in this case, I think that the following will help:  -- ========================================================= Tres Seaver tseaver(a)palladion.com 713-523-6582 Palladion Software http://www.palladion.com

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[DTML] creating variables
by David Ascher 06 Mar '99

06 Mar '99

I need to detect not only whether a list is empty (that's easy with the #if tag for example), but also whether all of the elements in the list have a property. In Python, one could do this with something like: empty = 1 for element in theList: if not element.hidden: empty = 0 print element if theList and not empty: print "no non-hidden elements" What's the equivalent DTML? Can one create a variable in DTML? Can anyone tell I miss my Python when writing DTML? =)

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Washington, DC area Zope users?
by Edward C. Jones 06 Mar '99

06 Mar '99

Are there any Zope users in the Washington, DC area?

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RE: [Zope] Python neccessary to work with Zope?
by Michel Pelletier 06 Mar '99

06 Mar '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Milos Prudek [mailto:prudek@sol.cz] > Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 2:14 PM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] Python neccessary to work with Zope? > > > I'm new to Zope. I'm very excited about it's potential, but my first > impression is that I will need to master Python in order to use it. I > believe Python is an excellent language, but I do not have the time to > learn it. Several questions about this: > You do not need to know a single line of Python to use Zope. But learning Python is a pleasure, not a chore. > - Can I achieve anything useful in Zope without touching Python? I can > learn DTML, of course. > You can do just about anything with DTML. In fact, most 'Products' (read that, 'Zope Extnesions') are mostly DTML. If your not writing a Product then you can stay entirely in the domain of DTML. DTML does use a small bit of Python in itself, these are called expressions. For example, if you had an integer called num you could use:  to 'render' it in your web page. To get num + 1 you would use:  The contents of "" is a python expression. But it's not a python program. If we didn't use Python we'd of had to have come up with some other language like way of doing this that you'd have had to learn anyway. > - if so, what I can and what I cannot do without Python? > Python is used for the following: To write Products. This is hard core development. To write External Methods, which are used to hook special or wierd/pre-existing python functions into Zope. This is rarely necesary. > - could I, for instance, do something like slashdot.org > without Python? > Yes. There may be a 1% slice of something like slashdot needing a bit of Python. But remember, slashdot is a huge application written entirely in Perl. > - is there a plan to give Zope features (or ready-made > modules/factories) that would completely eliminate the need > to work with > Python (for certain tasks that can be automated or turned into > templates)? > Yep. These are called Zope Classes. They are still in-house here at Digital Creations because we are still debugging/figuring them out. A Zope Class lets your create your own objects that can be added into Zope without writing Python code. > > -- > Milos Prudek > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope >

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Re: [Zope] Some tough questions about zope... (long)
by Tony McDonald 06 Mar '99

06 Mar '99

Again, another lengthy one, with some details of word conversions and XML musings. Fingers over 'd' key... >> Some background: >> I'm one of the web developers here, with a remit to implement a >> curriculum database that can; >> (a) support the Medical Faculty here >> (b) get rolled out to three other Medical-related sites, each with >> their own 'look and feel' >> (c) possibly implement a University-wide curriculum database> >Sounds fantastic! > Absolutely. One of the reasons I applied for the job is that the potential for it is so great! >> The curriculum database is essentially delivering online study guides >> (over 100 for each Faculty) whose source is originally from very well >> marked up Word Documents. In addition, we include multiple choice > >This is really weird, it just reminded me of a (rather pathetic) dream I >had last night. I dreamt that someone created a Python module that >would read Word files. > Ouch!, what we do is save the word docs as RTF. A free program (written in Omnimark) called RTF2XML then trundles through it and creates well-formed and valid XML. I then pass it through another Omnimark program that I wrote that turns it into XML that is more suited to what we want. >I've been awfully interested in XML in the last few days. Can you >describe what user-visible benefits PHP delivers due to its integrated >XML parser? > Background:... PHP is a (non OO) server-level scripting language, usually delivered as an Apache module, that has it's roots in C, but with some of the arcane bits removed. It's database integration is very good. The authors have recently built the (almost XML-industry standard) parser Expat into it. ... >From my point of view, having the XML parser in PHP meant that (a) I didn't need to call Perl CGIs (with all that overhead), (b) I'd understand the code a bit (I *cannot* do Perl!), (c) there might be a performance boost from having the parser in the Apache Module and (d) I'd be able to map XML elements such as <topic> ... </topic> into HTML <div> ... </div> tags or RTF control codes (all of which would be read from a user-defined database) - thus leading to the 'Holy Grail' (ouch!) of being able to render the documents into whatever form the end-user wanted. As well as that, using XML means that I can select all <topic> .. </topic> tags that match a certain criteria (eg, all first-year study guides that mention cell biology) from *all* our study guides and create a 'composite' document that would be passed through the XML 'converter' to get custom HTML and RTF docs. Of course, once I 'got into' XML I found out that just having the Expat parser around didn't necessarily mean I was going to get all that for free...ie how 'do' you 'search' an XML document to get those matched <topic> tags (and possibly their children). Enter XQL and it's friends, DOM and XSL. XQL (Perl module based on a W3C recommendation) works, but it's slow. In short, I was at an impasse. The level of work needed to incorporate XQL into PHP (as a CGI) or (gulp) rewriting it as PHP was just too much. I installed the XML-Config product for Zope and my appetite was whetted. I read about the XML-sig and downloaded the XML-0.5 toolkit from python.org. I tried one or two examples out ... and my jaw literally fell open. By the time I'd looked in the 'dom' directory I was almost gibbering. This was something I felt I might be able to understand (and definitely use). Ooops...I'll shut up as I'm waay of topic. >Additionally, we are working on Zope searching for a consulting project >right now. Actually it is Zope Cataloging. It's still a >consulting-only option, but plans are that eventually it will go "below >the line". That would be most welcome! > >> I found out about Zope Monday morning, dl'ed it, installed it, got >> one or two things working... and have been worried sick ever since. > >Ahhh, you too, eh? Did you have the dream about the chimp and the >External Method where...oh, nevermind. :^) No, but I've spent the last week muttering 'ok, I can use UserDB to authenticate against our StaffDB and allow per-user access to the file upload area', 'yeah, should be able to rewrite my PHP Multi-Choice Question engine in this DTML gubbins', 'ok, I'll pull in the Perl script that does xxx by using a redirect' and the like ... which is probably more scary! > >> My problem? is that I can see how Zope can do so much for us, but it >> seems to need a hell of a gut-wrench to do so. > >I *think* I have some good news to report on this, but before I squawk, >could you detail this gut-wrench a bit more? > Simply this: Zope seems to do just about everything I need (which is basically to provide a *framework* for the Electronic Curriculum - others will fill in *and manage* the content). I can then concentrate on providing features that people need and 'rolling them out' to the users of the systems, confident that they will integrate into the whole system. I think it's a paradigm-shifty thing more than anything else. Everyone in our group *knows* that an .htaccess file allows access to the files in that directory. They all have at least a basic grasp of CGI programming and all recognize the mapping between files in a unix file structure and their representations as web pages. People using Zope will have to break that habit of logging in to change a file ('cos it ain't there!). (for the time being, I've desubscribed from the PHP-lists to give me more room to think!...) >> c) Is there any way of using the XML documents that I'm creating into >> the database and parsing them to produce either HTML or RTF output? > >I'd like to have this as well. I've been doing a lot of thinking about >this lately. It is a bit more complicated than expected, though... This would be extremely useful to have. > >> d) I know that this a terrible question to ask... but is Zope likely >> to 'remain' open-source (we're worried about getting stuck with a >> proprietary system)?. > >This is the main reason I replied. > >Having Zope as a free and Open Source(tm) platform is the heart of our >business plan. A closed Zope would basically mean we start over >completely as a different company. Thus, closing Zope is roughly >equivalent to closing our company. > phew! well I suppose that answers *that* question! > >Earning the community's enthusiasm is pretty simple, I think. >Unfortunately we aren't doing a good job right now, though we are trying >damn hard. But we'll keep trying... > Seems to this newbie that you're doing a pretty *good* job! >> e) Can I 'point' an Apache virtual server to run a Zope cgi (ie >> dropping the :port requirment). > >Yep, the zope.org machine has five virtual hosts. great. > >> h) We also need resources such as QuickTime movies, images PowerPoint >> slides etc. to be uploaded - would they sit in the database or can >> they be held somewhere else (and what happens about file name >> conflicts)? > >We put them in the database. The 3 Mb Zope binaries are served out of >the database, the PDF files are served out of the database. This works >so well I don't even think about it any more. > great again. Thanks for the reply Paul, (and thanks to the others that replied too - I'm not able to reply in person yet...) Cheers, tone.

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Authentication and Zope.cgi
by rwolff＠noao.edu 06 Mar '99

06 Mar '99

I'm in need of a bit of clarification about how Zope starts up and when it decides to do its authentication and why. I'm running 1.10.2, solaris 2.6, apache, pcgi, netscape 4.07. When I request mymachine/Zope/manage I do indeed get the normal management screen. I haven't been asked in some time for a password, which suprises me; the 'access' file exists and (but?) hasn't changed since installation. I'd really like the root folder to say something other than Zope, so I added to Apache a second rewrite rule that substitues 'mpg' for Zope in the two places (restarted Apache), and copied Zope.cgi in cgi-bin to mpg.cgi . These two cgi files are identical so they point to the same /var directory. If I try mymachine/mpg/manage , I get an authorization failed box, and upon clicking 'retry', I get the usual authentication box with the correct 'access' user entered. I type in the correct password and the system fails again ("You are not authorized to use this system. Username and password are not correct"). So, I'm very curious as to what's going on ... and I wouldn't mind learning how to change the top of the root name as well.

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