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Documents for web and paper
by Robert OConnor 05 Mar '99

05 Mar '99

I'm looking for the best way to store and retrieve documents with these requirements: SPECS *Easy storage and retrieval on the web *Pretty printing on paper *Easy simple collaboration (no checkout) *One BASE format for both web and paper *Base format *could be* edited with Word or WP *Preserve text markup: bullets, bolds, underlines, tables, graphics, links...etc. *Search by keyword *Search by full text ******* I look forward to comments and Ideas on implementing this in ZOPE Perhaps some of this has been solved already and I don't know it. EXAMPLE: Say you have a small book/article that is fully contained in a WORD or WP file. It has chapters and sections: Chap1 Plants Section1: Trees Section2: Flowers Section3: Vegetables Section4: Fruits Chap2 Animals Section1: Dogs Section2: Cats Section3: Fish Section4: Humans Ok, as a paper document in the word processor it is laid out *nice* with a new page for each chapter, section, and subheadings for groups of paragraphs in each section. It prints *nice* and can even have a table of contents and index. For the web, the whole book could be one LONNNG web page. Ugly and it doesn't work well. Ideally on the web each chapter and section would be navigable with a left hand frame like table a la http://www.zope.org. Then sections can be placed on separate pages on the right. This means that the one source document becomes multiple html "files" on the web site. *Tree Navigation Ok, for tree navigation like http://localhost:9673/QuickStart Each Chapter and Section becomes a folder and the text from each section is contained in the same named: "dtContent" as in ...9673/QuickStart/Outline/Applications/External/dtContent While the tree is nice, and separate html "files" make the website better, *REVISIONS with TWO OUTPUTS How do you do: Make revisions to the source document in word/WP and have it FLOW automatically to html format or tree format for the web? *Perhaps* XML could come to the rescue as holy grail to help solve this problem??? I understand the idea of mark up but how does it solve the problem of two outputs? Can you have a template that automatically chops up the SOURCE into the appropriate folders/files etc and feeds it to ZOPE? Can this or another template reformat for pretty printing including page numbers that are updated based on the planned printing? Maybe I need to reconsider how documents are stored as source, i.e. not Word. And if not, what tool or mechanism would be best? Maybe the NATIVE source could flow to Word/WP or via a template making for pretty printing. Maybe for simple stuff, the source could be simple text entered on a webpage or sent by e-mail with *simple* markup and parsed automatically? *KEYWORD SEARCH Ok, on the web (and Zope), the benefit is it's searchability: Do we "hide" keywords in the source somehow and in addition use Chapter and Section titles as Keywords? Search for: "dogs" gives a result of Chapter 2 Section 1 in the example as one entry. Additional entries might be lessor cross references such as a keyword "dog" in the Section 4 humans as "man's best friend". *FULL TEXT SEARCH Ok so we search for the word "Daisy" and this word is found in the text in sections: Flowers, Dogs (as a pet name) and Humans (as a proper name). The result is then three line entries that take you to the words. *Zope IDEAS for this? I assume that it would be best to store the documents and source in the ZOPE database rather than an external datasource. Thanks for any input on this -bobo connor bob(a)rocnet.com

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Re: [Zope] Using Zope with CORBA (new user question)
by Jeffrey P Shell 05 Mar '99

05 Mar '99

>>>>>> "Paul" == Paul Everitt <Paul(a)digicool.com> writes: > > Paul> Jody wrote: > >> My basic questions are: > >> o Can I have an ILU mainloop inside of Zope? (I really don't > >> care if I have to hack Zope or if I can use an external > >> method.) > > Paul> This is a poor answer (as most here know I don't have the > Paul> mental horsepower to provide good responses :^), but...our > Paul> _intention_ over time is to have "ZServer" allow objects to > Paul> be published via PCGI, FastCGI, HTTP, FTP, and CORBA > Paul> simultaneously. > > Paul> Ideally we'd get some kind of Python implementation into the > Paul> Medusa handler layer. Obviously this approach has some > Paul> serious drawbacks... > > Paul> Anyway, I realize that I'm not providing much of an answer, > Paul> so sorry :^( > > Would it be worthwhile to start looking at and hacking ZServer? Yes. ZServer really restores Zope's original intent from the Bobo days: publishing objects through a variety of protocols. I think ILU support was once attempted back in those days. However, a Bobo app at that time could only have one publishing mechanism (ie, CGI, PCGI, FastCGI, ILU, etc...). ZServer allows for multiple publishing mechanisms in the same application, allowing access to the objects through the web, through FTP, or through any other protocol developed for ZServer/Medusa. .jPS | jeffrey(a)digicool.com zope, through the web. www.zope.org

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RE: [Zope] Using Zope with CORBA (new user question)
by Michel Pelletier 05 Mar '99

05 Mar '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Jody Winston [mailto:jody@ldeo.columbia.edu] > Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 10:19 AM > To: Paul(a)digicool.com > Cc: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: RE: [Zope] Using Zope with CORBA (new user question) > > > >>>>> "Paul" == Paul Everitt <Paul(a)digicool.com> writes: > > Paul> Jody wrote: > >> My basic questions are: > >> o Can I have an ILU mainloop inside of Zope? (I really don't > >> care if I have to hack Zope or if I can use an external > >> method.) > > Paul> This is a poor answer (as most here know I don't have the > Paul> mental horsepower to provide good responses :^), but...our > Paul> _intention_ over time is to have "ZServer" allow objects to > Paul> be published via PCGI, FastCGI, HTTP, FTP, and CORBA > Paul> simultaneously. > > Paul> Ideally we'd get some kind of Python implementation into the > Paul> Medusa handler layer. Obviously this approach has some > Paul> serious drawbacks... > > Paul> Anyway, I realize that I'm not providing much of an answer, > Paul> so sorry :^( > > Would it be worthwhile to start looking at and hacking ZServer? > It's allways worth while! :) I think the point paul was trying to push is that we are interesting in publishing our objects over various transport protocols. If you want to look in this direction, probably the best idea would be to write a Medusa handler. Check out Sam's site at: http://www.nightmare.com/medusa There currently exists an ftp and http medusa handler for Zope, which you can look at in the latest ZServer alpha release availabe at zope.org. I'm not sure is there is a Medusa CORBA handler or not, I suspect not, but maybe there's some type of CORBA out there written in Python? -Michel > Jody > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope >

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RE: [Zope] Using Zope with CORBA (new user question)
by Paul Everitt 05 Mar '99

05 Mar '99

Jody wrote: > My basic questions are: > o Can I have an ILU mainloop inside of Zope? (I really don't > care if I have to hack Zope or if I can use an external > method.) This is a poor answer (as most here know I don't have the mental horsepower to provide good responses :^), but...our _intention_ over time is to have "ZServer" allow objects to be published via PCGI, FastCGI, HTTP, FTP, and CORBA simultaneously. Ideally we'd get some kind of Python implementation into the Medusa handler layer. Obviously this approach has some serious drawbacks... Anyway, I realize that I'm not providing much of an answer, so sorry :^( --Paul

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RE: [Zope] Plenty of problems. Please Help
by Michel Pelletier 05 Mar '99

05 Mar '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Pavlos Christoforou [mailto:pavlos@gaaros.msrc.sunysb.edu] > Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 5:47 AM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] Plenty of problems. Please Help > > > Zopistas > > I have encountered problems mainly associated with ZServer and ZAP: > > I am using Zope-1.9.0 and the preconfigured Apache server to > run my Zope > site. Last night (a couple of hours ago!) I installed > ZServer. It wouldn't > run and I had to add the following to start.py to fix it: > I would suggest, first off, to use 1.10.2. ZServer is being developed against 1.10.2, and the latest Zap was tested and confirmed to work with it. > import sys,os > sys.path.insert(0,os.path.join('..','lib','python')) > Yes, there were discussions on this in the list about this problem. Someone needs to go back, rassle up the discussion and submit it to the ZDP. Looks like you found the fix. > Later on upon entering the management screens I noticed that > the id of the > top level folder dissappeared which caused the paths to my objects to > change. With ZAP (the preconfigured apache) I would visit: > http://www.gaaros.com:8080/Gaaros/ to get to the top level > directory but > with ZServer is: http://www.gaaros.com:8080/ which spoils all kind of > links that people have on my site. Hm. Is your Zap .pcgi file named Garros or does your RewriteRule look for Garros and then call PCGI? If so that is why you need to use Garros to reach the server. ZServer can server right out of Zope and doesn't have this problem. Your description makes this sould like it is a production site, I would not suggest running ZServer on a production machine as it is alpha and still buggy. > > Switching back to ZAP I got the following error: > > <FONT SIZE="+2">Temporarily Unavailable</FONT> > <P> > The resource you requested is temporarily unavailable - > please try again > later. > </TD> > </TR> > </TABLE> > (102) failure during connect >  > </BODY></HTML> > > Seems like ZServer changed my root id from "Gaaros" to nothing. This error comes from PCGI. It can't find your .cgi file so Zope isn't even being launched. Did your zap.conf file change (specificly the RewriteRule)? > I called PickleDictionary on Data.bbb directly from python > but I could not > even see the subobjects. BTW can the Zope Data.bbb be > accessed directly > from PickleDictionary?? > You can open a Data.bbb file into a PickleDictionary, but you won't see anything useful unless you really know what your doing. The Database itself is not a Pickle, it is a database of Pickles. I have attached a small 5K script that will be released with 1.10.3 which paruses the database and generates reports. In the future we are intending it to translate the entire database into XML for transport. (Note, we do not intend to use XML as the db format) > Also trying to shut ZServer from the control-panel results in > a core dump. > I suspect this is because you are using 1.9.0 > Ok enough for now, its very late and I cannot think anymore. > > If anybody has any clues about the root object id problem > please let me > know. > > Thanks > > Pavlos > > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope >

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RE: [Zope] zope ZGadfly DA buggy
by Paul Everitt 05 Mar '99

05 Mar '99

Aaron wrote: > I'm sure these will be fixed soon, in fact I'd offer a patch > if I could > figure out how the thing works, but until then, Right, understood. We had to spend a lot of time figuring out Gadfly in order to host it inside Zope. Thus we labeled it "Demo". I imagine that it is best for everybody if we take Gadfly out of the base Zope and make it an external, no-warranty package like the MySQL support. --Paul

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RE: [Zope] Some tough questions about zope... (long)
by Paul Everitt 05 Mar '99

05 Mar '99

Tony wrote: > This is quite a long email where I ask a lot of questions about Zope, > but I hope you'll be lenient with me as I think I have a few hard > decisions to make! I appreciate your patience and taking the time to submit well-thought questions. > Some background: > I'm one of the web developers here, with a remit to implement a > curriculum database that can; > (a) support the Medical Faculty here > (b) get rolled out to three other Medical-related sites, each with > their own 'look and feel' > (c) possibly implement a University-wide curriculum database. Sounds fantastic! > The curriculum database is essentially delivering online study guides > (over 100 for each Faculty) whose source is originally from very well > marked up Word Documents. In addition, we include multiple choice This is really weird, it just reminded me of a (rather pathetic) dream I had last night. I dreamt that someone created a Python module that would read Word files. My DreamTV must be picking up the wrong channel. > questions, file upload of lecture notes etc. and some 'active' web > pages showing dynamical processes in medicine etc. The curriculum > database needs to be searchable across its entire breadth (although > initially restricted to the one site), so that students and faculty > can find occurences of, say, 'lung cancer' in lecture resources - > this is to plan for curriculum management, so that we can find out if > we're pushing subjects too much (or indeed, whether we're pushing a > subject at all!). We have other applications (nearly all of which are > written in Perl/PHP3) and want to seemlessly integrate them into the > curriculum database. > > Currently we do all our development work on Unix, using Apache > virtual web servers, MySQL as our database engine and Perl running as > a CGI for most of our applications. My input has been to introduce > PHP-3 (an Apache module with a bulit-in XML parser) and some XML > knowledge to the group. I've been looking at a scenario where our > study guides are converted in XML using Omnimark and held as static > XML documents in a database. They are then rendered into HTML/RTF and > put into static web directories. The student can run a program that > extracts elements from selected XML documents and creates a > customised set of HTML pages or RTF document that is built for them > 'on the fly'. My manager was a bit worried about all these static > pages lying about and to be honest so am I, but extracting the > relevant XML from a database to render into individual HTML pages > seems a massive drain on the system. I've been awfully interested in XML in the last few days. Can you describe what user-visible benefits PHP delivers due to its integrated XML parser? Additionally, we are working on Zope searching for a consulting project right now. Actually it is Zope Cataloging. It's still a consulting-only option, but plans are that eventually it will go "below the line". > I found out about Zope Monday morning, dl'ed it, installed it, got > one or two things working... and have been worried sick ever since. Ahhh, you too, eh? Did you have the dream about the chimp and the External Method where...oh, nevermind. :^) > My problem? is that I can see how Zope can do so much for us, but it > seems to need a hell of a gut-wrench to do so. I *think* I have some good news to report on this, but before I squawk, could you detail this gut-wrench a bit more? > There also doesn't seem to be an easy 'half-way' house to > move to Zope. > I've read a lot of the documentation, and am doing so constantly, but > the wisdom of the list would be very helpful indeed. > > The questions: > a) Is there a way for us to 'dump' the non-dynamic parts of a Zope > database into static HTML pages. This would act as a way to say to > the team "look, we have a parachute!". There have been a lot of suggestions on this one. Here's another one: a command-line program that takes everything out, such as the wget program. > b) Can I integrate with the Perl/PHP3 programs that we have (the Perl > programs are mainly .cgi, but the PHP3 programs are server-side > scripted, and as such are embedded into the HTML itself). This is so > that I can > c) Is there any way of using the XML documents that I'm creating into > the database and parsing them to produce either HTML or RTF output? I'd like to have this as well. I've been doing a lot of thinking about this lately. It is a bit more complicated than expected, though... > d) I know that this a terrible question to ask... but is Zope likely > to 'remain' open-source (we're worried about getting stuck with a > proprietary system)?. This is the main reason I replied. Having Zope as a free and Open Source(tm) platform is the heart of our business plan. A closed Zope would basically mean we start over completely as a different company. Thus, closing Zope is roughly equivalent to closing our company. With _that_ said, we still need to provide some assurances that we won't legislate the connection between Zope and DC. First, we are trying to keep some arm's length distance between zope.org and Digital Creations. We hope to formalize the way the community participates in the platform. We expect to make it lucrative for other businesses to participate. At the same time, we intend to pursue commercial opportunities atop the platform for vertical applications. Ultimately this is the same question put to Netscape regarding Mozilla during the AOL talks. The answer is simple: "The genie is out of the bottle." Since it is open sourced, Digital Creations must *earn* its stewardship of Zope. If we don't we'll become less relevant. Earning the community's enthusiasm is pretty simple, I think. Unfortunately we aren't doing a good job right now, though we are trying damn hard. But we'll keep trying... In the meantime, I'm absolutely ecstatic to see folks in the community step forward over the last month and lead the way. > e) Can I 'point' an Apache virtual server to run a Zope cgi (ie > dropping the :port requirment). Yep, the zope.org machine has five virtual hosts. > f) I'd like to have the option to have user authentication > information coming from a database - is this possible? Previously answered. > g) We have something like 200 main level directories holding the > study guides, each with up to 200 files in them - is that pushing the > Zope database too far? Ditto. > h) We also need resources such as QuickTime movies, images PowerPoint > slides etc. to be uploaded - would they sit in the database or can > they be held somewhere else (and what happens about file name > conflicts)? We put them in the database. The 3 Mb Zope binaries are served out of the database, the PDF files are served out of the database. This works so well I don't even think about it any more. --Paul

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RE: [ZDP] Re: [Zope] need help with IIS/ODBC
by Paul Everitt 05 Mar '99

05 Mar '99

Martijn wrote: > What is the procedure for retracting bug reports? mail > support(a)digicool.com? That's a good solution for now. --Paul

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Re: [Zope] An interim solution for the FAQ
by Martijn Pieters 05 Mar '99

05 Mar '99

>To contribute to the FAQ you just have to send e-mail to me or to the >Zope list and include the word FAQ somewhere in the subject. >In the body of your e-mail message you should include (somewhere) an >XMLish faq entry as below: Hmmm.. could we change this the ZDP list? After all, that's what it is there for.. -- M.J. Pieters, Web Developer | Antraciet http://www.antraciet.nl | Tel: +31-35-6254545 Fax: +31-35-6254555 | mailto:mj@antraciet.nl http://www.antraciet.nl/~mj | PGP: http://wwwkeys.nl.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xA8A32149 ------------------------------------------

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Plenty of problems. Please Help
by Pavlos Christoforou 05 Mar '99

05 Mar '99

Zopistas I have encountered problems mainly associated with ZServer and ZAP: I am using Zope-1.9.0 and the preconfigured Apache server to run my Zope site. Last night (a couple of hours ago!) I installed ZServer. It wouldn't run and I had to add the following to start.py to fix it: import sys,os sys.path.insert(0,os.path.join('..','lib','python')) Later on upon entering the management screens I noticed that the id of the top level folder dissappeared which caused the paths to my objects to change. With ZAP (the preconfigured apache) I would visit: http://www.gaaros.com:8080/Gaaros/ to get to the top level directory but with ZServer is: http://www.gaaros.com:8080/ which spoils all kind of links that people have on my site. Switching back to ZAP I got the following error: <FONT SIZE="+2">Temporarily Unavailable</FONT> <P> The resource you requested is temporarily unavailable - please try again later. </TD> </TR> </TABLE> (102) failure during connect  </BODY></HTML> Seems like ZServer changed my root id from "Gaaros" to nothing. I called PickleDictionary on Data.bbb directly from python but I could not even see the subobjects. BTW can the Zope Data.bbb be accessed directly from PickleDictionary?? Also trying to shut ZServer from the control-panel results in a core dump. Ok enough for now, its very late and I cannot think anymore. If anybody has any clues about the root object id problem please let me know. Thanks Pavlos

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