August 1999 - Zope - Zope lists

RE: [Zope] The new DTML syntax
by Paul Everitt 06 Aug '99

06 Aug '99

Alexander wrote: > natural languages, "dtml-if" isn't a word; it's two words; we > learn, by > convention, to split such hyphenated constructs into separate > words. Our > mind works best with individual words. Why go against the grain and > teach the brain a new thing? Unfortunately you're going against the grain of HTML on this one. From the W3C statement on XHTML, which is the declared future for HTML: """ There are two major reasons for content developers to adopt XHTML: First, XHTML is designed to be extensible. This extensibility relies upon the XML requirement that documents be well-formed. Under SGML, the addition of a new group of elements would mean alteration of the entire DTD. In an XML-based DTD, all that is required is that the new set of elements be internally consistent and well-formed to be added to an existing DTD. The greatly eases the development and integration of new collections of elements. """ Thus, polluting the HTML namespace with custom DTML tags is against the grain. The prepended "dtml-" imitates the XHTML mechanism of specifying namespaces. Please feel free to explain to the W3C that their concept of modularization goes against the way the brain works, and that one big global namespace is the right thing to do. > Afaik, there's no technical reason to prefer the "dtml-" prefix to > something like "z-" or "dt". Is "dtml-in" somehow more unique in the > world of markup languages than "dtin"? In the future when we're using > XML namespaces, will we be writing "dtml:dtml-in"? Nope. This syntax is supposed to be HTML-oriented version without the strictness of an XML syntax. Using a colon would have implied rigor that wasn't required. > I'm not surprised that DC dominates the negatively-charged end of the Please explain the "not surprised". Do you feel in some way that we've followed a pattern of being closed-minded? Do others in the community feel that we've been stifling input? > discussion, but this is supposed to be an open-source development > project, so I suggest a good, clean discussion on the topic and then a > vote. I agree, we should _continue_ the good, clean discussion that has been going on since the topic first came up weeks ago. As for a vote, we'll certainly accept the results of any such vote as input into our decision-making process, just as Guido accepts multiple inputs for Python changes before he makes the final decision. Thus, I welcome your suggestion for gauging sentiment in the community. In summary, you've brought up a number of interesting and valid points, as have many others in this thread on both sides of the argument. Sound judgement is the art of sorting through both the reasoned as well as the confrontational arguments and making the best decision. --Paul Paul Everitt Digital Creations paul(a)digicool.com 540.371.6909 ----------------------------------------- The Open Source Zope application server http://www.zope.org/

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Acqusition and External Methods...
by Tony McDonald 06 Aug '99

06 Aug '99

Ok, I 'simplified'? my code of a few hours ago and got this External Method: testDocTemplate.py import DocumentTemplate from Acquisition import Implicit def doit(self): template_str = '''<table> <tr><td bgcolor=silver colspan=2>This data is being dynamically generated from a database</td></tr> <dtml-in "info_from_email(email=content)"> <tr><td><dtml-var Title> <dtml-var Surname></td></tr> </dtml-in> </table>''' template = DocumentTemplate.HTML(template_str) return template(content='hirst') (1) info_from_email is a ZSQL method *in the same folder* as the external method itself. (2) Ideally I want to get a DTML document in the folder heirarchy, ie template_str = str(self.Actors.RENDER.modulecontributor) On clicking 'Try It' I get:  ......  ...and I'm totally baffled. I'm now I'm off to the pub to befuddle my head even more..... tone ------ Dr Tony McDonald, FMCC, Networked Learning Environments Project http://nle.ncl.ac.uk/ The Medical School, Newcastle University Tel: +44 191 222 5888 Fingerprint: 3450 876D FA41 B926 D3DD F8C3 F2D0 C3B9 8B38 18A2

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RE: [Zope] The new DTML syntax
by Jeffrey Shell 06 Aug '99

06 Aug '99

Alexander Staubo against hyphenation > mind works best with individual words. Why go against the grain and > teach the brain a new thing? It makes sense to me. It lets me read DTML/HTML source and pick out what's DTML and what isn't. The syntax has in no way bothered my brain, my fingers, or my reasoning in the slightest, and more of my editors are now tought to understand it. I see no reason to introduce yet another syntax so we can learn new works like "dtin" (is the dt silent?). And if you think it's too long, wait until XML floods everywhere. XML hates shortcuts. Just think, no more confusion over the difference between <dtml-in "gamma"> VS <dtml-in gamma> when the whole world is in <dtml:in expr="gamma"><dtml:var name="sequence-item"/></dtml:in>. How many questions do we see on the list when someone quoted something (using the "expr" shortcut) that they intended to not quote (using the "name" shortcut), and got an error when python tried to subtract item from sequence? :)

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AUTHENTICATED_USER.name vs .getUserName() (was RE: hiding site co ntent based upon a domain?) ntent based upon a domain?)
by Jeffrey Shell 06 Aug '99

06 Aug '99

> No. The problem is that: > >  > > Should be: > >  > > Because AUTHENTICATED_USER is a user *object*, not a string. > The string > representation of a user object is its .name attribute, but > if you try to > just compare a user object to a string, it will always fail. The more preferred way is to use AUTHENTICATED_USER.getUserName(), since more complex User Folders (UserDb's, LDAP User Folders, etc) might construct the user from different attributes. There are some basic methods defined on the BasicUser object (from which most AUTH_USER's are derived) for getting the user name, roles, roles in context, etc.

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indexing dynamic sites with ZCatalog
by Pawel Logatschev 06 Aug '99

06 Aug '99

hello, does anybody happen to know how to index websites with dynamic content. when i try to index pages including data by aquisition, only the templates are indexed. regards, pawel

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RE: [Zope] Zope 2.0 documentation
by Paul Everitt 06 Aug '99

06 Aug '99

This syntax was labeled "experimental". Since it survived and is now part of Zope, it's experimental status has been dropped. However, there's still a LOT of work to make it official: o All the documentation has to be changed, which is a MAJOR effort (look at all those screenshots) o The Zope source has to be changed so that all the management screens, etc. use the new syntax (ugh) o Presumably we have to create a DTD o etc. Since it was a late addition to Zope2, there's now way we could get all the above done without a serious slip in the schedule. --Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Stephan Richter [mailto:SRichter@ixl.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 8:31 AM > To: zope(a)zope.org > Subject: [Zope] Zope 2.0 documentation > > > Is there any Zope 2 documentation out there? > I have seen and heard (on the mailing list) about new style > dtml syntax. > > Where can I read about it? > > stephan > -- > Stephan Richter > iXL - Software Designer and Engineer > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope(a)zope.org > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > (To receive general Zope announcements, see: > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > For developer-specific issues, zope-dev(a)zope.org - > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) >

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permission & New syntax
by Tom Deprez 06 Aug '99

06 Aug '99

Hi, Permission You could have a look at the example I provide at : http://www.master.cit.be/c8/default.html (just press enter and go to Examples) About new syntax: zif Well, I've a small problem at that.... I use the alias ZifNab.... And lot of people call me zif.... So, people perhaps are going to think that my ego is growing and that I write web-applications with zif-syntax.... :-)))) But offcourse, by all means if you find it better, go for it! Only be sure the manuals are updated. Regards, Zif...:-) (Tom)

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RE: [Zope] Alternative to "PARENTS[0]"?
by Brian Lloyd 06 Aug '99

06 Aug '99

> Howdi, > I use a "link_table" dtml document that has the > following snippet: > ... >  > <table > >  > ... > > I call this document from all over my site structure to > create nice standard > tables of links, based on sub folders with common properties. > Trouble is I can't use it to render tables from folders other > than the current. > The PARENTS list always starts with the parent of the > initially active document, > eg index_html's parent folder. > > Okay the question is, I think: what is the best way to > retrieve a list of > objects under a folder that is not the "current" folder? Basically, you just need to call "objectValues" on the Folder you are interested in. As long as the Folder is _above_ you in the heirarchy, you can acquire it. If it is below you, then just refer to it as if it were any other subobject. For example, say your site has a folder setup like: folder1 folder2 folder3 folder4 folder5 folder6 Now, lets say the actual dtml is actually called with the url: /folder1/folder2/folder3/folder4/index_html So to create a table based on folder2, we can 'acquire' folder2:  or if we want to list folder6, we just start at the current level:  Hope this helps! Brian Lloyd brian(a)digicool.com Software Engineer 540.371.6909 Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com

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Weirdness with <dtml-in> and external methods.
by Tony McDonald 06 Aug '99

06 Aug '99

Hi all, I have a situation where I pass some variables *from* an external method, to some DTML, which then returns it to the external method (which *then* presents the finished product to the user). Sounds convoluted, and it is, but it's the only way I can think of that will let me do initial processing (for speed), but will allow me to change the actual layout displayed to the user without messing with external products (it also seems more flexible). As an example, here's a snippet from my external method (make_html3.py) that will generate a <P> tag around some content, given that the 'type' of element is text (I have quite a few, such as 'item' and 'modulecontributor') if thetag == 'text': if theclass: # does it have a class? used for Cascading Style Sheets. html.seq_prefix = "<P CLASS='%s'>" % theclass html = "<P CLASS='%s'>%s" % (theclass, content) # html = self.Actors.RENDER.dopara(theclass=theclass, content=content) else: html = "<P>%s" % content return html If the commented line is removed, and I comment the preceding one, my DTML method (dopara) gets called; <table><tr><td bgcolor=silver><dtml-var content></td></tr></table> and all is well. Now all is fine and dandy *until* I want to use <dtml-in constructs. I want to do this because for one of my 'type's is an email address for data on module contributors (title, address, tel etc.) I've tried with full ZSQL queries and they didn't work (but they DO work if I try them from within the Zope framework). I ended up with this DTML, called modulecontributor. SQLPhone is a folder where I'm putting my SQL methods, one of which is info_from_email. <table> <tr><td colspan=2 bgcolor=silver>This data is being dynamically generated from a database</td></tr> <dtml-in "Actors.SQLPhone.info_from_email(email=content)"> <tr> <td><dtml-var Title> <dtml-var Initials> <dtml-var Surname><td><td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Department:</td><td><dtml-var Department_Name></td> </tr> </dtml-in> </table> the relevant Python looks like this if theclass == 'modulecontributor': html = self.Actors.RENDER.modulecontributor(content=content) return html and the traceback :( looks like this...  I reduced things down until the <dtml-in> was looping over a token property. Still no joy. Any ideas? tone. ------ Dr Tony McDonald, FMCC, Networked Learning Environments Project http://nle.ncl.ac.uk/ The Medical School, Newcastle University Tel: +44 191 222 5888 Fingerprint: 3450 876D FA41 B926 D3DD F8C3 F2D0 C3B9 8B38 18A2

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Re: [Zope] The new DTML syntax
by Christopher Petrilli 06 Aug '99

06 Aug '99

> "Christopher Petrilli" <petrilli(a)digicool.com> writes: > >> The larger gain was moving away from SSI syntax, >> because this has allowed us to teach the syntax to editors like Alpha and >> GoLive. > > Is there, by any chance, a DTD of the new syntax? Not at this point, anyway. Perhaps one day. Certainly once we do a pure XML design, we will do a DTD. Chris -- | Christopher Petrilli Python Powered Digital Creations, Inc. | petrilli(a)digicool.com http://www.digicool.com

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